XLR, DMX & Power in a single MultiCore

[bm794]

Hi,

I do a lot of travelling sound for AmDram (one night in a location and on to the next) and am looking at ways I can massively improve the speed I can rollout the gear - 90% of which is running cabling. 

Is anyone aware of any multicores which can feed power, XLR outputs and DMX for lights? The power draw isn't massive, couple of 500w speakers, all LED lights etc, but there just isn't always power where you need it. If possible, I'd also like to run antenna extensions for Radio Mics through the same multicore, but appreciate that might be a step too far. I tend to mount them on the lighting stands. 

If you're not aware of any pre-made stuff, is there anything to consider when DIYing this sort of thing? Presumably separation between the different cable types, with particular emphasis on the power and signal being split out. 

Thanks!

[themadhippy]

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Is anyone aware of any multicores which can feed power, XLR outputs and DMX for lights?

is a single xlr  and powercon classed as a multi?

https://www.10outof10.co.uk/acatalog/1.5m-Combi-PowerCON-and-XLR-5-Pin-Male---Female-DMX-Cable-56167.html#SID=1350

or  do as we've done for years,tape the various cables together.

[Yorkie]

Probably easiest to assume that extending radio aerials down the multi is a non-starter.
The rest of your conundrum is typically (cost effectively!) achieved by taping a mains cable to an XLR loom, although hybrid cables with mains and one or occasionally two XLR lines are available by the metre or pre-assembled. I say 'XLR' - Cable designed for AES (digital audio) is also suitable for DMX and analogue audio. Cable designed for DMX is also suitable for analogue audio. Cable designed for analogue audio is technically unsuitable for DMX, although those of us doing small scale, simple or amateur productions have probably used it anyway for years and generally not had any trouble.
 

https://www.vdctrading.com/shop/Van+Damme+Cable/Hybrid+Cables
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_dms_222_50_cat_multicore.htm

[sleah]

From what I've seen, combined power and data (DMX or audio I suppose) cables are insanely expensive. As mentioned, adding antenna is a non starter. You'd be in to the realm of custom made cables, the cost of which doesn't bear thinking about!

Options for bundling cables up could as simple as 'leccy tape or cable (zip) ties (but carry plenty of elastoplast for the cuts to hands...) or plastic spiral wrap (can make looms a bit 'stiif' for want of a better description or plastic 'braiding', which I quite like and have used to bundle power and CAT5 data together.

[kerry davies]

Multicores would be a very costly way of running redundant/unused circuits to places you don't need them. No two venues are identical and the placing of each individual item will never be identical. My solution was to have lots of cables of varying length of each required type and use those that fitted at each venue. I can foresee having to extend multicore elements to suit each individual venue thus making them an expensive luxury that actually added to time pressure. 

Spiral wrap or tape was always more than adequate if I needed neatness but the one thing that really worked was to run out loads of different cables and choose the closest in length for each requirement. Multicore also restricts what goes where too much for me.

[sunray]

This sort of sleeving makes a good multicore https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175821632523?var=475224440614&itmmeta=01HVMD1FW5CW4TMA1EKRXBBY9V&hash=item28efc9340b:g:8XEAAOSwaxBktPWf&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4O83tJaNvCmVhFZdXqXoVTLD5OAq6aCfYLqo1hbc2tgFXN%2FqVQVFdJvosaVxeYzcCeR8uwqiFGe8%2BF2oFUkwAJSjSGpzjqV8hAFzBOeI6z2EFntnMKxr43Lf5xEoInaS4PxXBY8IVA1H%2BLO3eqmfty9ZPtTzmDWJaLNJHLjDIcx19cX2j68Y1hq%2F0ITC5HZSodc3PO%2FVzvyu%2BeepxQZ4ppDgGZjqrKDPzU94ffRdx9BOpY1Vii1Tq8wZH7aHNSucMhy0nP1R09HFbZPpPFJRYKh8hMQ3BXQA5SjXZyZTXjCD|tkp%3ABFBMsv6Fjd1j

I often position radiomic receivers nearer to the source rather than run long aerial cables.

Bear in mind you will require a working space of at the very least the length of any loom you make, I've found it's easier to draw the sleeving onto the bunch of cables rather than pull them into the sleeve in which case you require twice the length. The longest I've done has been 50m, that requires at least 3 people but the end result is worth it.

[Yorkie]

The best known brand name of the expandable braided sleeving is 'pliosil'

[bm794]

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No two venues are identical and the placing of each individual item will never be identical. My solution was to have lots of cables of varying length of each required type and use those that fitted at each venue

Oh, absolutely. The idea for this would be to get from the back of the room (or field...) to the first point in the chain (usually a lighting pole), and then I'd extend from there. If I can cut 4x 20m runs, it saves me 80 metres of cable that I always end up running, usually separately and usually not very neatly (I go back and fix it, but again, it takes time).  

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I often position radiomic receivers nearer to the source rather than run long aerial cables.

I considered that - but I like to be able to see the receivers in case of a problem. That way I can just cast my eye onto the rack and see what's going on. It's also saved a few embarrassing moments just before show starts - where someone has turned their radio mic off...

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Cable designed for analogue audio is technically unsuitable for DMX

Huh, I always thought that was the other way around (DMX cable unsuitable for audio). As you say though, I've never had any problems in my small deployments. 

 

The general consensus seems to be to DIY it - which I expected. I'll have a think about everything you've all commented on above - but thank you everyone who has taken the time to reply 😀

[Andrew C]

You used to be able to get some really weird stuff for TV cameras.  I got a long run when a TV research lab shut.  Can't quite remember what it had in it, but certainly power, balanced audio, RF coax, and some sort of data connections.  And there were several flavours of the above too!

[timsabre]

Just tape it together to make up looms, all touring music shows do their floor-mounted lighting that way (usually colour coded per destination for fast setup). If it's too long for the venue it just stays coiled at the side of the stage.

Use good tape (eg Lemark PVC) and cut with scissors rather than tearing it, it will stay stuck longer.

[J Pearce]

What Tim said. Make a loom. If it’s too long coil the slack.

[ninjadingle]

If you're in different venues all the time with varying lengths and different layouts - cable reels might be a way to go. We have a few 2 x analogue and 1 x DMX reels that we made ourselves, you can get around 20m onto a small reel. Though with power usual caveat of taking all the cable off the reel to avoid overheating issues applies!

Depending on your brand you can remotely monitor radio mic receivers?

[alistermorton]

10 hours ago, bm794 said:

Huh, I always thought that was the other way around (DMX cable unsuitable for audio). As you say though, I've never had any problems in my small deployments. 

It's one of those "it will work, until it doesn't" situations. You can send DMX down 3-core mains cable and it will probably work (but it might not) most of the time, but it's one of those why tempt fate scenarios. Always use correctly wired DMX spec cable for DMX (regardless of whether it's 3 pin or 5 pin XLRs on the end) and always terminate each run and you've reduced the failure modes.

You'll find plenty of "experts" on Farcebook who will tell you that in 50 years in the industry they've never used a terminator ever on the biggest shows going, terminators are never needed, indeed that "it's a scam" (yeah, right) but they're just wrong.

[sleah]

15 minutes ago, alistermorton said:

You'll find plenty of "experts" on Farcebook who will tell you that in 50 years in the industry they've never used a terminator ever on the biggest shows going, terminators are never needed, indeed that "it's a scam" (yeah, right) but they're just wrong.

Indeed. Years ago we had a school lighting system using Betapack2's that worked flawlessly for years with the same setup and cabling, until one show when one dimmer pack started flickering. Stuck a terminator at the end of the chain and all was fine again. It just happened out of the blue. Absolute proof of the saying "it'll work until it doesn't".

[alistermorton]

It's not entirely unheard of for self terminating fixtures to stop terminating because the little switch in the thru socket that switched the terminator in to circuit has failed.