Using two recorders to record a Choir

[Muller_Light]

My wife's choir conductor wants to record the choir using two recorders positioned either side in front of the group and then trying to synchronise the two together, (presumably one L and one R), probably using the timelines on a video editing program.

Will this work?  I don't think it will, as it will be impossible to synchronise the recorders and you will get all sorts of phase effects, but I may be missing something.

I think two mics into one recorder is the way to go.

Any comments & recommendations welcome.

[ImagineerTom]

Why?

 

Multi track recording has been accessible and easy for decades; find out what precisely he is trying to achieve as it can't surely be just to record "stereo"

[sandall]

Possibly just wants 4 mics across the front (not an uncommon way to record a choir), but trying to do it with 2 stereo recorders. Synching up using something like Audition might work, then panning the LH recorder tracks to hard-left & centre-left, & the others to centre-right & hard-right; all a bit tedious to do & may well sound horrible!  Better to use 4 mics & a 4-channel mixer & record the stereo output, if you have the gear. Otherwise just use one central recorder.

[Dave m]

What recorders do they have? 
Tascam DR40 types and Zooms normally have 2 x Jack/XLR inputs and I am pretty sure that the Tascam sat least can run their built in mics as well as external. 
I used to do a lot of multicam video and it would stay in sync.

If a zoom type recorder can stay in sync with a camera at 16bit/48k. Then it will stay in sync with another unit.

How you’d sync the sound files is debatable but an announcement followed by a handclap should do?

Obviously there are four channel recorders, or even something like a Zoom L8 

The L8 is a mixer with built in SD recorder that does 8 live channels plus mix.

[chelgrian]

9 hours ago, Muller_Light said:

My wife's choir conductor wants to record the choir using two recorders positioned either side in front of the group and then trying to synchronise the two together, (presumably one L and one R), probably using the timelines on a video editing program.

Will this work?  I don't think it will, as it will be impossible to synchronise the recorders and you will get all sorts of phase effects, but I may be missing something.

I think two mics into one recorder is the way to go.

Any comments & recommendations welcome.

Over a short duration ie minutes to tens of minutes this might work and produce an acceptable result.

However over a longer duration ie tens of minutes to hours then slight variations in the clock sources in the two recorders will mean that the two recordings are appreciably different lengths when played back leading to all sorts of weird effects.

If at all possible stick to one multichannel recorder.

Edited February 28 by chelgrian

[jamesperrett]

If it is important to keep a stable sound stage then you will need to keep both recorders perfectly in sync which is impossible unless you can connect them together with a word clock connection. Without perfect sync you will probably find that sounds move across the stereo spread depending on which recorder's sound arrives first. It would be much better to use a 4 channel recorder which doesn't necessarily have to be that expensive. Something like the Zoom H4 has an on-board stereo mic with the facility to add two additional microphones.

[Muller_Light]

Thanks for all the replies.

In answer to Tom's 'Why', he wants to, in his words, 'up the quality' of the concert recordings and I think he has been to some concerts where they have had two or more microphones at the front and assumed he could just double up on recorders. (Zoom H2n at the moment).  It will be just to produce a stereo output at the end.  He doesn’t want to spend hours on a computer putting it together.  I think Chelgrains comment about them going out of sync over a period of time is also a good reason to go for a single multitrack recorder.

I think a Zoom H4 with some separate mics may be the way to go.  Any budget microphone recommendations?  There seem to be many tips on choir recording on t’interweb, but all seem to want the mics fairly high and not too far away, so I’ll now look for some suitable stands.

Paul

PS. Tom -  Concerts usually in Loughborough/Leicester/Derby. Tickets always available! https://www.vivalamusica.org.uk/

[sleah]

I've some experience of recording audio on separate devices then sync'ing in post, usually for video. Results vary between devices when it comes to synchronisation.

One thing I will advise, and this is through bitter experience, is NEVER EVER record direct to mp3 format! The synchronisation drifts like crazy...

I mention it because I use a couple of Tascam recorders which have an option of recording to mp3, which may be appealing due to the smaller file size / more capacity on storage. Get a bigger SD card..

I'm not even going to mention audio quality of mp3, because for some applications it is perfectly acceptable, but I'll get flamed for suggesting that! 😉😆

[p.k.roberts]

For budget microphones, you're not going to get much more budget than this;

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_c2_stereoset.htm

next step up would probably be

https://www.thomann.de/gb/lewitt_lct_040_mp.htm

but don't forget to add on a stereo bar.

That, in simple X/Y configuration, on a high stand, just behind the conductor is a good place to start and if you get the position right (might take a bit of experimentation - don't forget to take some reasonable headphones) it should get a reasonable result without any post-recording tweaking. You could add more microphones (e.g. for soloists or further back to give more room acoustic), but I'm inferring from your post that the preference is to keep this reasonably simple.

There are lots of articles about recording choirs on the Sound On Sound website (a reliable and reputable source of information).

[Robin D]

The Behringer C2 are cracking little units at the price. Put them up against some Rode M3's in a venue and no-one in the tech team, yet no-one, (except the Op on the desk)  could tell any difference in sound quality. 

Very sensitive to noise coming up a stand though. easier to hang if you can. 

[sunray]

I'll say the same about the C1 and their version for the SM58 market about 30 years ago.

[richardash1981]

Somewhere in the middle price wise, I have a pair of these: https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc140_stereoset.htm, which I have used as choir mics (for reinforcement) with OK results, as well as for recording as a crossed pair (they sell them as a box pair with a T-bar and shock mounts).
As no-one else has said it, it's not clear to me quite why the "customer" is wanting to use more than two microphones for the recording - if the perception is that only the center of the choir gets picked up on recordings, then the mics are probably too close to the choir, other things being equal (whole different game for sound reinforcement!). More does not equal better in this game.

[TomHoward]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:07 PM, Robin D said:

The Behringer C2 are cracking little units at the price.

We have some in a school recording studio and I'd never really rated then, given the price point. A student (who is unaware of the cost of each mic) did a presentation on mic choices for acoustic guitar with a C2, a SE7 and an M201. I had to double check myself he hadn't got the wrong mics as the C2 stacked up against them.

[sunray]

5 hours ago, richardash1981 said:

Somewhere in the middle price wise, I have a pair of these: https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc140_stereoset.htm, which I have used as choir mics (for reinforcement) with OK results, as well as for recording as a crossed pair (they sell them as a box pair with a T-bar and shock mounts).
As no-one else has said it, it's not clear to me quite why the "customer" is wanting to use more than two microphones for the recording - if the perception is that only the center of the choir gets picked up on recordings, then the mics are probably too close to the choir, other things being equal (whole different game for sound reinforcement!). More does not equal better in this game.

I wish more people understood that🤔