Flame Retardants on Event Draping - can anyone point me to rules/regulations?

[stevep]

Hi All

I was looking to purchase a bespoke piece of draping for a conference event in a hotel and the manufacturers have come back to me when quizzed about fire retardant properties saying: 

"Thanks for your enquiry.  We do not advertise or supply any drapes with fire retardant certificate or treatment.  Our drapes are decorative products for events which need to be taken off after events, so does not require fire certificates as they are not permanent fixtures."

To me it is irrelevant if they are permanent fixtures or not! The chances of a fire during an event is much greater than when a room is unused so that seems an odd position to take for a company that specifically sells drapes for events.  But I'm having difficulty finding anything that clearly sets out the requirements to prove that they need to be (I can find plenty on standard of fire protection, just not when it is required). If anyone can point me to a source of such that'd be much appreciated

 

Many thanks

 

[Stuart91]

It may boil down to the conditions of the venue licence, rather than being "law of the land". There might be variance between councils/local authorities. 

(For example, for many years Edinburgh were really tight on electrical safety, whereas Glasgow ignored the electrics but were far more concerned about structural stuff. I always wondered if it was down to whatever accidents had occurred in each place back in the dim and distant past)

 

1 hour ago, stevep said:

To me it is irrelevant if they are permanent fixtures or not! The chances of a fire during an event is much greater than when a room is unused

I agree. 

I suppose you could argue that a fire is more likely to spread unchecked if the room is empty, but the chances of that initial ignition occurring are far greater with punters in. (Especially if they are idiotic/inebriated...)

Plus, even if they did have an argument here, what happens for a multi-day event? 

[pmiller056]

If the venue is part of a chain of hotels, they likely to have a requirement as part of their conditions of hire that any drapery provided by the hirer must be be flame retardant. If this is not a required by their entertainment licence, then it will be required by their insurers. Drapery/curtains as well as soft furnishings used in any hotel room where people sleep should be flame retardant anyway, so the requirement will most likely apply over the whole hotel site.

Unfortunately, you will need to find another supplier who has a better understanding of your requirements.

[Ynot]

There's a LOT of info out there on fire retardency of soft goods in events scenarios, so feel free to use Google (other search tools are available) to whet your whistle on what they all say - which will be pretty much the same.

Every venue or space has to have their own fire safety policy in place and these days it's up to the local H & S guy/team to compile that to suit the venue and the type of events they'll be hosting. Part of that WILL be to at the very least dictate the level of FR of any drapes to be used either in-house or brought in by contractors.

It will then be the contractor's responsibility to a) read and abide by the local policy based on how the soft goods will be used and b) ensure that any contracted in hired goods comply with the conditions from the venue.

This means that if YOU bring in un-FR materials alongside ANYTHING that is capable of generating combustible heat ** such as tungsten LX kit, then it is YOU who would likely be liable under legal proceedings should your gear cause an incident/fire etc. 

** Let's not forget the adage that ANYTHING electrical can be a smoke machine if used wrongly or found sufficiently faulty... 😮 

So IMHO any supplier who is sending out drapes on a regular basis MUST be doing so with a specified level of FR certification.

[kerry davies]

If your Fire RA says that you need fire retardant soft furnishings, which it jolly well should, then you need to find another supplier. A quick Google for "Bespoke Fire Retardant Theatrical Drapes" will bring up plenty of reputable suppliers.

The Whaleys and J & C Joel websites have detailed explanations of flameproofing and fire retardant materials and bear in mind that other reputable folks can flameproof non-retardant drapes if you cannot do it yourself. 

[Jivemaster]

The venue licence will define the requirements for fire resistance not the proposed supplier of unknown drapery. Unless a materiel is non flammable like Brick or Concrete, then some regulations WILL apply. Every major town has had a fire incident in the entertainment sector and each has devised different regulations to minimise risk and hazard.

If major items especially drapes do not have certificates and labels then some venues could block the show on the night. If the show is touring then check with every local authority that you will pass through.

[pumphouse]

As @kerry davies said - it should really be in your risk assessment.  H&S law these days is not often very specific or prescriptive and relies on risk assessments in many areas, which can make it hard to point to specifics in 'regulation x of law y'.

The hotel should have a fire risk assessment, which may or may not consider the elements of brought-in drapes.  You could ask them, but either way round if you are working the conference and providing drapes on anything other than a supply-only basis then you should have your own RA, and if you don't include fire considerations for that then it may not be deemed 'suitable and sufficient'.

Find another vendor who does understand and can meet your needs.

[Jivemaster]

EVERY venue should have some kind of licence to operate as a place of entertainment. Those permits will have conditions amongst which will be the fire standards, among which will be standards for fire retardance for everything. If a council inspector calls (yes they do) that inspector can pull the licence to be a place of entertainment. I've seen it happen once in Leicester Square, the fire inspector turned up during the early evening and found things that didn't comply and shut the venue down. It took them 18 months to get the work done because the freeholder was a Church, the building was Listed and no-one wanted to work in a no vehicles, no parking location. A venue licence is issues after inspection and will be renewed almost for ever. BUT if the licence  is lost the building works must make the building up to the new standards, which will be EXPENSIVE.

[sunray]

2 hours ago, Jivemaster said:

EVERY venue should have some kind of licence to operate as a place of entertainment. Those permits will have conditions amongst which will be the fire standards, among which will be standards for fire retardance for everything. If a council inspector calls (yes they do) that inspector can pull the licence to be a place of entertainment. I've seen it happen once in Leicester Square, the fire inspector turned up during the early evening and found things that didn't comply and shut the venue down. It took them 18 months to get the work done because the freeholder was a Church, the building was Listed and no-one wanted to work in a no vehicles, no parking location. A venue licence is issues after inspection and will be renewed almost for ever. BUT if the licence  is lost the building works must make the building up to the new standards, which will be EXPENSIVE.

Yep, not on the same scale by anymeans. Something similar in a local hotel, the facility was randomly fire inspected and closed as 600 guests were arriving for a company awards dinner as some building works had blocked a fire exit and the alterations for the exit hadn't even been started, inspector stood there and watched as a chef demolished the blockage with a sledgehammer and waiters cleared the rubble by hand and buckets.

[sunray]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:47 PM, sunray said:

Yep, not on the same scale by anymeans. Something similar in a local hotel, the facility was randomly fire inspected and closed as 600 guests were arriving for a company awards dinner as some building works had blocked a fire exit and the alterations for the exit hadn't even been started, inspector stood there and watched as a chef demolished the blockage with a sledgehammer and waiters cleared the rubble by hand and buckets.

Let's just say that the owner of the function hall of the hotel (different to the main bulk of the hotel at the time) was not one to take too much notice of officialdom if they had the chance (and my guess is the reason the building works were not being done in the right order). If the function hadn't gone ahead most of the staff would have been sent home without pay, I also guess they were not very fussy about the status of those who they employed and not many had much recongnition of English language.

[Junior8]

Go to any reputable soft furnishings company and enquire - Miss J8 works in one and they have stuff treated all the time. I'll bet they can make just what you want - or know somebody who can.