H802RA, FLX and Art-Net

[pumphouse]

Has anyone had any experience of making an H802RA (Link) LED pixel controller work in an Art-Net environment with a lighting desk (preferably an FLX)?

Trying to work through various incarnations of Chinglish 'manuals' and YouTube videos hasn't got me anywhere yet!

I am trying to drive some WS2811 addressable LED tape via Art-Net from a Zero88 FLX.  I have a DMX-WS2811 controller and I have had that hooked up and working fine, so I know the tape is good and the fixture setup in the FLX is good, but I need 4 universes so Art-Net to a single box with 4 tape driver outputs would be neater.  I can make it work with a separate node and 4 driver boxes but I'd prefer the neater solution.

I can see the H802RA in the LEDStudio software, and I can see the DHCP address (in the right range for the ) that it has picked up.  I can also set the chip type and Art-Net universe number etc. in the software and I can see that it is saving that information.  I have patched the correct desk universe on the FLX to the Art-Net universe I want to use, with the desk Art-Net IP address in the same range as the H802RA, but in DMX Workshop I can't see the H802RA as an Art-Net node, even though I can ping it.

All the example videos seem to show use of this device with LED software on a PC, rather than control from a desk - but in theory if it's an Art-Net to pixel tape driver it should be able to pick up the Art-Net from the desk.  It is however refusing to work.

If anyone has any experience with these controllers working directly from a desk using Art-Net then I'd be very grateful!

I have seen one comment online that it may not actually accept an Art-Net input but the product information seems to suggest that it does.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Tomo]

It is practically certain that it will not appear in DMX-Workshop, as that can only display receiving devices that respond to Art-Poll packets.
Unbranded "Art-Net" stuff almost never does, so cannot be discovered.

On the assumption that the device is actually capable of receiving Art-DMX:

• Can you see the Art-Net DMX output of the FLX in DMX Workshop?
  If not, that's the first problem to fix.
• Most "unbranded" Art-Net receivers only support broadcast Art-Net 1.
  Try enabling 'limited broadcast' mode (send to 255.255.255.255) in your console.
  In that mode all devices on the local physical network will receive the packets, but you won't be able to send more than around 8 universes (sometimes less) before things start to misbehave. (This is why it's not recommended!)
• Art-Net universes count from 0 (often written as 0-0 or 0-0-0), but most consoles count from 1.
  Some consoles default to universe 1 is Art-Net universe 0 (network is console minus 1), others to console universe 1 is Art-Net 1 and Art-Net universe 0 can't be patched.
• I've seen a lot of cheap/unbranded "Art-Net" devices that only work when set to universe 0. Try that.

As a general rule-of-thumb, devices that say they support both sACN (E1.31) and Art-Net are far more likely to work than those that only say Art-Net as they're more likely to be using the open-source libraries that actually work.

Edited January 1 by Tomo

[indyld]

Lots of good advice from Tomo, but something to add for troubleshooting for the OP or others looking to see what's going on in sACN or Art-Net land. I don't use DMX Workshop, but use the more generic network diagnostic tools and can highly recommend Wireshark for packet inspection. 

I also wouldn't usually be testing something I was unsure about using DHCP.

Edited January 1 by indyld

[pumphouse]

Thanks for the replies.

I can see the FLX in DMX workshop, and it works fine with our EtherN.8 node that we use for the house rig.

I can patch any desk universe (which does start at 1) to any Art-Net universe (patchable from 0 upwards).  Have tried changing the universe numbers around a bit (including the +/-1 offset to no avail).  From some of the other LED software configs the H802RA definitely supports multiple configurable Art-Net universes.  I can set this on the control software for the H802RA and I can see these settings retained on a re-boot.

It picked up a DHCP address from out of the box.  I can ping it, and I can assign another IP address through the control software that does detect the box - it's responding to some form of broadcast polling - but perhaps as @Tomo said not the Art-Poll.  Some of the other LED software does seem to 'find' it if the documentation is to be believed....

I'll see if I can set the FLX to broadcast and try that.

I have dabbled with WireShark in the past - what would you be looking for in this scenario?

Thanks

[Edward- Z88]

Hi @pumphouse

22 hours ago, pumphouse said:

in DMX Workshop I can't see the H802RA as an Art-Net node, even though I can ping it.

18 minutes ago, pumphouse said:

the control software that does detect the box - it's responding to some form of broadcast polling - but perhaps as @Tomo said not the Art-Poll.

18 minutes ago, pumphouse said:

I'll see if I can set the FLX to broadcast and try that.

This will probably be the issue. FLX will only send ArtDmx to Art-Net devices that subscribe/request an Art-Net universe. If they don't ask for an Art-Net universe, they won't be sent one. FLX does not have an option to force Art-Net to be broadcasted.

Art-Net 4 controllers unicast ArtDmx to Art-Net devices that subscribe to a universe. ArtDmx can only be broadcasted if more than 40 devices subscribe to a single universe.

[kgallen]

(I pinged support@zero88.com with this thread just in case @Edward- Z88 has any additional ideas for how to do some debug of this from the FLX side).

Too late, he's just replied above!

Edited January 2 by kgallen

[pumphouse]

Thanks @Edward- Z88.  That's probably it.  It's quite likely that the LED control software on a PC may use broadcast, although some element of polling-based detection is evident in some of the software.  If the box isn't responding to an ArtPoll then I guess the FLX won't 'see' it as a device?

I'm getting another 4-universe Art-Net node to try and I can then use DMX-WS2811 drivers to control the LED tapes.

 

 

[Edward- Z88]

3 minutes ago, pumphouse said:

It's quite likely that the LED control software on a PC may use broadcast, although some element of polling-based detection is evident in some of the software.  If the box isn't responding to an ArtPoll then I guess the FLX won't 'see' it as a device?

I am guessing that the LED Pixel driver does not appear in Setup > Devices on FLX? If so, this confirms FLX is not receiving an ArtPollReply from the driver. If you can "see" the device in its configuration utility, the device must be using some other non-Art-Net form of discovery.

6 minutes ago, pumphouse said:

I'm getting another 4-universe Art-Net node to try and I can then use DMX-WS2811 drivers to control the LED tapes.

Great - glad you'll be able to workaround the issue.

[indyld]

Some useful info here. The thing is, different versions of Art-Net work in various ways and it's anybody's guess what has and hasn't been implemented on cheaper "compatible" boxes. People often assume Art-Net is still basically broadcast but as mentioned subscriptions need managing etc.

The upside to something like Wireshark is you can see everything, the downside - you can see everything... I generally filter for relevant traffic, in this case Art-Net packets, polling, replies and such. 

Edited January 2 by indyld

[timsabre]

I suggest you download "ELM" from the Enttec website for testing. The demo version puts up a dialog box every 5 mins to continue, but it is really handy for testing this sort of thing. You can set each universe to broadcast or unicast and test for Artpoll response etc.

[Edward- Z88]

58 minutes ago, indyld said:

The upside to something like Wireshark is you can see everything, the downside - you can see everything... I generally filter for relevant traffic, in this case Art-Net packets, polling, replies and such. 

It is probably worth mentioning that to get the most out of Wireshark, ensure the PC running Wireshark is connected to a port of a managed switch, with the port set to "mirror" mode.

This ensures ALL of the Ethernet Switch's data is sent to the Wireshark PC. If Wireshark is simply connected to a port of an unmanaged Ethernet Switch, only broadcast data on the network, or unicast data sent directly to the laptop, will be received by Wireshark. You'd therefore miss all of the unicast data being sent between other devices on the network.

[DrV]

8 hours ago, Edward- Z88 said:

It is probably worth mentioning that to get the most out of Wireshark, ensure the PC running Wireshark is connected to a port of a managed switch, with the port set to "mirror" mode.

This ensures ALL of the Ethernet Switch's data is sent to the Wireshark PC. If Wireshark is simply connected to a port of an unmanaged Ethernet Switch, only broadcast data on the network, or unicast data sent directly to the laptop, will be received by Wireshark. You'd therefore miss all of the unicast data being sent between other devices on the network.

Would a dumb ethernet hub help in this case, to act as a sort of tap into the network. Just asking out of academic interest...

[Tomo]

1 hour ago, DrV said:

Would a dumb ethernet hub help in this case, to act as a sort of tap into the network. Just asking out of academic interest...

Yes, except that gigabit hubs don't exist, and nobody makes 10/100 Base-T hubs anymore.
So they're handy if it's a 100M network and you just so happen to have one knocking around.

[DrV]

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Yes, except that gigabit hubs don't exist, and nobody makes 10/100 Base-T hubs anymore.
So they're handy if it's a 100M network and you just so happen to have one knocking around.

Ah, didn't realise that it would be gigabit. Still, if it were 100Mb, as a diagnostic aid, the odd second-hand hub shouldn't be that hard to get hold of. Anyway, as I said, it was only out of academic interest. Thanks.

[pumphouse]

Well interestingly a Chamsys instance running on a laptop DID recognise the driver as an Art-Net node, but the FLX didn't.  Will investigate some more if I get some time.