Pat testing length

[mattmatt]

We have some par cans and fresnel that once rigged don’t move or be touched by anyone . What is the longest we could put them through on pat test for ? 
 

 

[david.elsbury]

Well, it’s really down to your risk assessment isn’t it? A lot of offices use 5 year test cycles on IT equipment that doesn’t get moved. 
what’s the likelihood of damage to the fixtures? Will they cook themselves over time, and therefore become more hazardous? Can they be retested when you relamp them?

Edited August 4, 2023 by david.elsbury

[kerry davies]

HSE themselves do not PAT test their own office kit on a set time schedule. As long as things are visually checked, for which no expertise or qualifications are required, then it is down to what you determine, as David writes. TRY THIS  which is the latest I can find.

PAT testing is not a legal requirement per se, the law simply requires employers to ensure electrical equipment is maintained in order to prevent danger – it doesn't state what needs to be done or how often, and I personally can't think of many lower risk environments than fixed 30 feet in the air, can you?

[sunray]

31 minutes ago, kerry davies said:

HSE themselves do not PAT test their own office kit on a set time schedule. As long as things are visually checked, for which no expertise or qualifications are required, then it is down to what you determine, as David writes. TRY THIS  which is the latest I can find.

PAT testing is not a legal requirement per se, the law simply requires employers to ensure electrical equipment is maintained in order to prevent danger – it doesn't state what needs to be done or how often, and I personally can't think of many lower risk environments than fixed 30 feet in the air, can you?

My local church hall were asking for stage equipment to be tested before each play which was roughly annually and insisted their approved electrician did the deed at drama groups expense, now they are asking for 6 monthly but currently not done since 2019.  However the spotlights in the church don't appear to carry any test stickers, I wonder if divine intervention is being relied on?🤣

Edited August 4, 2023 by sunray

[p.k.roberts]

I don't really think that the lanterns would necessarily be regarded as 'low risk' as the type of equipment in the document Kerry linked to is. Additional considerations in this instance might be whether the lanterns (or their cables) are likely to be knocked (or pulled) by other activities - using access equipment or moving scenery for example. These might be considerations in a performance space for example but not in a 'gallery'. The CoP also suggests that whilst record keeping is not mandatory, it is useful to see if there is any history of degradation. If the lanterns are 'tungsten', then heat degradation over time might be another issue to consider. I suspect the OP was looking for a simple answer, but sadly there really isn't one. No activity is really risk free, that would be unrealistic, but when I am making this type of decision, I always picture myself on a jury and ask myself would the precautions I did take be viewed as reasonable (or reasonably practical).

[sunray]

1 hour ago, p.k.roberts said:

I don't really think that the lanterns would necessarily be regarded as 'low risk' as the type of equipment in the document Kerry linked to is. Additional considerations in this instance might be whether the lanterns (or their cables) are likely to be knocked (or pulled) by other activities - using access equipment or moving scenery for example. These might be considerations in a performance space for example but not in a 'gallery'. The CoP also suggests that whilst record keeping is not mandatory, it is useful to see if there is any history of degradation. If the lanterns are 'tungsten', then heat degradation over time might be another issue to consider. I suspect the OP was looking for a simple answer, but sadly there really isn't one. No activity is really risk free, that would be unrealistic, but when I am making this type of decision, I always picture myself on a jury and ask myself would the precautions I did take be viewed as reasonable (or reasonably practical).

And realistically that is the only thing we can do.

In that church hall the stage lighting cables have been classed as portable too as they are not connected to the mains despite looking fully installed and the source being C13 / BS1363. Personally I have very mixed feelings about the portable/installed demarcation.

[p.k.roberts]

Anything 'installed' would be covered by an EICR. What we continue to refer to as PAT testing I find leads to a lot of confusion as it contains the word 'portable'. The CoP for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment now specifically excludes that term and the old terms 'portable' 'mobile' and stationary have, thankfully, gone away.

[gareth]

You should at least be giving them a clean once every year or so - why not PAT-test them then? You say they never get touched - but what about replacing the lamps? They don't last forever...

[sunray]

41 minutes ago, p.k.roberts said:

Anything 'installed' would be covered by an EICR. What we continue to refer to as PAT testing I find leads to a lot of confusion as it contains the word 'portable'. The CoP for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment now specifically excludes that term and the old terms 'portable' 'mobile' and stationary have, thankfully, gone away.

The big problem with this is different people have different ideas/interpretations on what is 'installed'. To my mind the stage lighting cables are installed, purely because they are run in fixed trunking (which happens to included power circuits), the sockets are screwed to the fabric of the building - those sockets in the pic are cut into the ceiling tiles (actually they are in trunking bolted to the roof girders which has grid bar fixed to each side and the tile rests on it). However I know of 2 theatres whose stage lighting circuits come under a completely different inspection regime and village/church halls with such circuits installed/owned by others seem to happily detach themselves from any responsibility and even insist on 3rd party insurance specifically listing them.

In domestic situations EICR only ever seems to go as far as the FCU/switch etc but the appliance never gets included in PAT as it doesn't have a plug, again I feel a fixed appliance should be included in EICR.

[sunray]

29 minutes ago, gareth said:

You should at least be giving them a clean once every year or so - why not PAT-test them then? You say they never get touched - but what about replacing the lamps? They don't last forever...

Ah but...  Should a fresnel lighting a pulpit be treated differently to a PAR38 spotlight bulb which doesn't require a PAT or clean every year? After all said and done they are both lights and both doing the same job.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by sunray
Just to clarify my opinion yes they should be treated differently but I see no 'requirement' to do so.

[sandall]

6 hours ago, kerry davies said:

TRY THIS  which is the latest I can find.

They also do a 24-page guide to maintaining Portable equipment, but I don't have a link to hand.

[Jivemaster]

Church Halls and like "community" places are really run on NO basis, no-one has the knowledge but they have the responsibility!

Does anyone here have the old guidance that was there about 10 years ago (probably from HSE) that ranked  objects for their risk. This ranked hired power tools much higher than table lamps and semi-permanent things like Point of sale terminals etc. 

[sandall]

If you mean HSG107 (the 24-page booklet/PDF) this is what they suggest -

[sunray]

So where would people put stage lights that rarely get moved in that list, by that I think about the hall owners rather than the light owners/users?

[gareth]

7 hours ago, sunray said:

Ah but...  Should a fresnel lighting a pulpit be treated differently to a PAR38 spotlight bulb which doesn't require a PAT or clean every year? After all said and done they are both lights and both doing the same job.

 

I'll answer your question with another very simple question - has it got a plug on it, or is it hardwired? This one simple distinction will go a long way to determining the outcome.