Carrying A Multi-Tool

[p.k.roberts]

I know we've had threads about this in the past, but I just came across this and though it might prove useful (if a tad depressing) ....

 

[Junior8]

The important point to remember here is that unless the person with the lockable blade raises a defence of reasonable cause under the act the crown is seen to have proved its case which is why the Judge removed discretion from the jury. A person found with a lockable blade of more than 3" in a public place will be found guilty if they don't bother to try and raise a defence or that defence is considered unreasonable. 

What a jury might consider a reasonable defence is quite another matter...

[p.k.roberts]

I think the law says that the blade has to be both less than 3" and non-locking.

[Junior8]

Sorry you're quite right. Anything over 3" and anything lockable needs reasonable cause. Lockable knives are not illegal per se otherwise it would be illegal to sell them in the UK. 

[Bryson]

The useful precedent would be if anyone had ever used the defence in court "I use this at my employment and I am am on my way / returning from there." That's the situation that I think would be most applicable to the users of this forum.  Do we know if that has ever happened?  (Perhaps it's sufficiently obvious that it's never made it to court.)

 

Secondarily useful would be an examination of "I use this at work and so it lives in my work bag, which I am carrying, although not literally on my way there when questioned."

[Stuart91]

2 hours ago, Bryson said:

The useful precedent would be if anyone had ever used the defence in court "I use this at my employment and I am am on my way / returning from there." That's the situation that I think would be most applicable to the users of this forum.  Do we know if that has ever happened?  (Perhaps it's sufficiently obvious that it's never made it to court.)

An employee of mine managed to walk through the metal detector archway at the local passport office, with his Leatherman in a belt pouch. I got a phone call from the police, who asked me to corroborate his explanation. 

He was en-route to work but had just popped in with some paperwork. It probably helped that he hadn't needed to take much of a detour to visit it, plus he was quite young and definitely didn't look like a hardened criminal. No further action was taken. 

 

Meanwhile, in one of today's local papers, there is the case of a joiner who was charged and convicted for having a retractable Stanley knife on his person. However he'd run away at the sight of a police car, reading between the lines he might have been up to something else and the knife charge was the only thing they could get him on.

[Russ83]

So the case he talks about has set the precedent in law for carry a multitool, nothing we can do about that just that everyone needs to be aware. When you read up on the case the guy had the knife out and had chased two people down the street and threatened to stab them...no mention of that in the video!

For everyone on here I think the question has to be what were you doing to get noticed by the Police in the first place? If it's on your belt under clothing or in your bag no ones going to know, if it's on show to everyone then expect to be pinned to the ground by an armed response unit and arrested. I'm sure many of us have nipped out for a break and without a second thought still had screwdrivers, podgers and blades on a belt but there are mitigating circumstances that you have been using them for your job. You just need to make this very clear in your initial interview and you might get away with a fine instead of going to Court. If you do get stopped for any reason while carrying then keep your hands away from your body and visable, talk to the officers telling them exactly what you have and use slow movements.

A sign on the exit doors 'Are your tools safe' might be a useful reminder (but not an excuse to lock the apprentice in a flightcase!)

[Junior8]

I looked into this some years ago before buying someone a 5cm folding lockable knife for basket making and the clearest and simplest advice I came across on a retail site was that if you don't need it for a specific use you can prove, even if it's just hiking, don't buy it. 

[ianknight]

I remember this when the issue was first raised a few years back & now being older & vastly more cynical - I always smile at news headlines about youths in London being escorted off buses with machetes or "zombie killers" in their possession & think "they must be on their way to work at the local plantation..."

In a country now where we ask proof of age for buying a canteen of cutlery over eBay (by using a credit card!) or you get "carded" in B&Q for buying a craft knife/'stanley' knife yet apparently buying a machete in your local hardware store is a doddle?

My Gerber nowadays "lives" in the glovebox of my car & only gets hooked on my belt when I arrive at work & it's the first off my belt before the seatbelt goes on to drive home all for fear of being pulled.... It's a strange old world 😞

[alistermorton]

Even that may not be enough - I have a recollection of reading a story some time back where someone got stopped and asked for his documents, he had them in the glove box, but there was also a multitool in there which he took out while rummaging for the documents, and he got charged for being in possession of an offensive weapon, because it had a blade over 3" which locked. It was quite the cause celebre at the time, ordinary bloke stopped for a traffic check (I think it was a similar number to a car they were looking for) who happened to have one of his work tools not in a locked toolbox.

Edited January 20, 2022 by alistermorton

[J Pearce]

How often do we actually need a blade at work? Pliers, yes. Cutters, yes. Screwdrivers, yes. I might use a blade for cutting tape off a bar, but a recessed blade box-cutter is a better tool as it removes the risk of catching a cable. Cutting fabric is probably better done with scissors. Most of the things we need to cut with a blade would be better cut with a stanley type blade (retracting, please), not a long thin blade.

I'm not saying there are no uses for a blade in the backstage world, but are there sufficient uses to require us all to keep a blade on our person every time we are on stage? You can get some good bladeless multitools, box cutters work well, and most of the time we'd all be better going to the toolbox for the proper tool anyway.

Basic risk assessment would suggest that using a blade (especially a long blade) over any other tool that can do the job is not sensible.

</devils-advocate>

[kerry davies]

A few years back our local community copper was bemoaning the fact that he had been asked by the force to visit the local youth clubs and explain the knives legislation.

"I goes down there and does my bit then Dad turns up in the pick-up laden with bill-hooks and chainsaws to take 'em hedging. Pointless, innit?" 

[Robin D]

Not a multitool or even stage related but years ago I was hemmed in and pulled over on the A11 by armed police. Someone had reported I had a gun in the car glovebox outside Barclays in Bishops Stortford. I was scared witless at the time. The explanation was that I was alone in the car on the way home from work. I had stopped at the bank to deposit a wallet of takings in the nightsafe. I always travelled with it in the glove box out of sight. Also in said glovebox was a toy gun confiscated on an earlier journey from our son about 8 years old. He kept pointing it at other cars and shouting BANG which was distracting and possibly upsetting to other vehicle users. 

Having a gun pointed at me and told to get out of the car slowly without touching anything, being held hands behind back and frisked are burnt in memories I have no wish to repeat.

Once they retrieved said silver cowboy revolver from the glovebox they immediately realised it was a toy gun, but I still had to explain why it was there. 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Robin D
Typo

[sandall]

I remember many years ago being driven up to Edinburgh from London, stopping-off for lunch with the driver's mum somewhere up north off the A1, with a not very well concealed collection of Baptiste army rifle replicas on the back seat, hoping that all the paperwork was in order.

[adam2]

Members may recall the murders of two young girls in Soham, some years ago. At the time I had a trainee working alongside me who had a VERY unfortunate resemblance to the murderer, my workplace was raided by the police seeking to capture the trainee. 

It was soon realised that the actual murderer was safely behind bars and that the very similar appearance of our trainee was simply an unfortunate coincidence. However a multi tool was found in his pocket, and he was charged with this. Acquitted by the crown court, on the grounds that the multi tool was a work tool, and that he was AT WORK AT THE TIME and not in a public place. 

Expensive in time off and in legal expenses, but you cant appeal against an acquittal. The police declined to return the confiscated tool on the grounds that they had a "zero tolerance of the carrying of knives" And that this policy was not affected by court judgments.