Covid rules event

[Dave m]

does anybody understand the post May 17th rules for events?

We are trying to run an art show that will be part "real" but also streamed

The traditional event is a packed series of studios with guests milling about. We have streamed several replacements since last summer using an atem mini pro /hosts on zoom/ prerecorded inserts and it was a success.

This time it will be 50% live with inserts again, a couple of live cameras inside the venue, sent to a live audience outside on a big screen. Plus streaming.

The problem is - groups of six/ 30 people max outside.

What ARE the expected rules post 17th? Some big events can go ahead, autojumbles/theatre/cinema? Is it likely to be possible to have maybe 100 people if they behave?

CheersI release "it depends..."

[jmdh]

I agree it's all pretty unclear isn't it! My current understanding is that things are proceeding exactly as per https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021-summary (with additional changes to international travel), and that says:

 

"The government will also allow some larger performances and sporting events in indoor venues with a capacity of 1,000 people or half-full (whichever is a lower number), and in outdoor venues with a capacity of 4,000 people or half-full (whichever is a lower number). In the largest outdoor seated venues, where crowds can be spread out, up to 10,000 people will be able to attend (or a quarter-full, whichever is lower)."

 

Depending on whether you think the word "some" applies to the second part of the sentence about outdoor venues, it sounds as if 50% of normal capacity is the expectation, so I'd be expecting to write a risk assessment documenting what a usual capacity for any given space would be based on the type of event. Of course true to form there's no sign of any legislation to enact these changes with less than a week to go, let alone industry specific advice - at least there's been no update on https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/performing-arts reflecting step 3, though I am keeping a close eye on that.

[Big Jay]

The easiest way to get clarification is to contact the local authority the event will be taking place in. The GOV will set the main guidance but LA's also can impose its own restrictions.

[ImagineerTom]

The single biggest barrier to events restarting at the moment isn’t the government regulations - it is (as noted above) local authority enforcement decisions & insurance companies. To put on an event you need to make sure your local licensing officers are happy with your risk assessments and you need to make sure your insurers are happy with the arrangements you have out in place. If either of them says no (or even just “we’re not sure”) then your event won’t be going ahead regardless of what government websites or guidance says.

[Stuart91]

The single biggest barrier to events restarting at the moment isn’t the government regulations - it is (as noted above) local authority enforcement decisions & insurance companies.

 

I've seen a fair bit of noise in the news (trade and general) about cancellation insurance, not so much about the situation with local authorities.

 

I think what we'd need is national guidelines, otherwise each local authority will come up with whatever they fancy. I have a horrible feeling that for many, it'll be easier just to refuse permission than work constructively to come up with a safe plan for each event.

[Junior8]

Miss J8 tells me in the equestrian sector its the canx insurance which seems to be the issue. And to be fair if you were an underwriter how would you rate the risk in the present circumstances - especially if you have been in court defending your decision not to pay out Business Interruption claims? As far as local authorities are concerned the important thing - pandemic or not you should do it continuously for regular events - is always to get the elected members on your side. But don't expect logic. Last Xmas when we were hamstrung trying to visit Dad in his Cheltenham Care Home due to Glos CC rules Cheltenham Borough were allowing a Christmas Market in the High Street!

 

If I was an operator I would have bitten the bullet and pulled my event in December anyway.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Junior8

[ImagineerTom]

The single biggest barrier to events restarting at the moment isn’t the government regulations - it is (as noted above) local authority enforcement decisions & insurance companies.

 

I've seen a fair bit of noise in the news (trade and general) about cancellation insurance, not so much about the situation with local authorities.

 

I think what we'd need is national guidelines, otherwise each local authority will come up with whatever they fancy. I have a horrible feeling that for many, it'll be easier just to refuse permission than work constructively to come up with a safe plan for each event.

 

As has been proven time and again with regards to government grants and support being dispersed by local authorities even when there is a defined central policy clearly stated different authorities interpret those rules different resulting in wildly different payments to sector. Thus even if there was a central definition of the processes for re opening events and theatres there would still be huge regional variation by the different licensing and safety officers.

[Stuart91]

Thus even if there was a central definition of the processes for re opening events and theatres there would still be huge regional variation by the different licensing and safety officers.

 

True, but at least if there was a central definition it would be something to refer back to if you're trying to argue your case. I suspect part of the problem with the grants was that the guidelines were vague enough to give lots of wriggle room. One round of funding in Scotland was just left entirely to the local authorities to distribute as they saw fit. Our council gave a flat £3k grant to every business with premises, other councils concentrated on the most affected sectors or varied the awards by business size or number of employees.

[ImagineerTom]

it would be something to refer back to if you're trying to argue your case

grant funding guidance and regulations have gone into great detail but still the different local authorities (or rather the trade bodies that advise them) and produced conflicting guidance. This isn't a new situation; on a day to day basis premises and event licensing is supposed to be 100% standardised across England and Wales yet some areas we go to they ask for "our paperwork" and we never see them again, others involve weeks of meetings and questions, multiple onsite inspections, random electrical tests and the pandering to dozens of local community and action groups. If over decades they haven't managed to make implementation of well worded regulations standardised we have no hope for the rapidly drafted covid regs and guidance notes.

[Brian]

...on a day to day basis premises and event licensing is supposed to be 100% standardised across England and Wales...

 

There used to be an organisation called LACORS (Local Authorities Coordinators of Regulatory Services) which was part of local government, and there used to be some people there who 'got' our industry. As such most local authority requirements were standardised. And then came cuts to local authority funding and they disappeared leaving a large hole in some local authorities knowledge.

[sandall]

And then came cuts to local authority funding and they disappeared .....

Just like Technical Services, Social Services, Children's Services, Venues, Libraries, Building Control, etc, etc, etc......

[Stuart91]

they disappeared leaving a large hole in some local authorities knowledge.

 

I often find it's the small authorities that have most trouble dealing with unusual events. E.g. trying to treat a mobile stage as if it's scaffolding on a building site. In a big city, you get inspectors who are more or less full-time on events and temporary structures. In some rural councils, it's whoever drew the short straw in the Building Control office. (My quickest ever stage inspection occurred when the Building Control inspector noticed an unsafe chimney stack on a neighbouring building)

 

A central office providing support and standardisation would be a very good idea.

[Brian]

they disappeared leaving a large hole in some local authorities knowledge.

 

I often find it's the small authorities that have most trouble dealing with unusual events...

 

Absolutely. I think it was the smaller authorities that lost the most. Have you ever wondered by Premises Licence conditions for all the smaller councils re the same? It's because they were all centrally written; it's only the larger, usually metropolitan, authorities that have the in-house expertise.

[ImagineerTom]

A lot of local authorities have been sub contracted out to capita / serco et al - from our experience they all simply refer to head office who have produced their own interpretation of the rules and so authorities run by serco contractors all take the same decisions etc.

 

For the ones still directly employed by local councils I know there are Facebook and WhatsApp groups where (much like blue room) individual officers ask for advice on how to deal with situations and then follow the notes given by posters on there. Any hope of a standardised situation is long gone.

[kerry davies]

When the 2003 Act was under consultation the intention was to simplify and standardise licensing with a "light touch" approach. EHO's and councillors on licensing committees saw it as a reduction in their authority, fought against it and we have the Jobsworth mess we have today. Government set up courses for the LO's and their staff and out of 550 authorities had fewer than 10% express an interest.

 

That doesn't help the OP but the responses are about right, God in his heaven can order a re-opening for business but Councillor Bloggs might well have other ideas, best to ask him.