Recording strings - mic set up

[mk_193]

Hi,

 

I've got to record a group of about 12 people playing strings on stage, just cellos and violins I think. I only have the capability to record onto 2 inputs into my computer at the moment, so my options are 2 boundary mics on the front of the stage (Superlux E303 cardiods) or I've got 2 AKG 414s. It's also being filmed so I don't really want to stick mics infront of everyone. Pretty new to recording and this kind of area so any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[J Pearce]

I'd definitely go for the C414s. Probably a stereo pair (I like ORTF) front and centre.

[mk_193]

I'd definitely go for the C414s. Probably a stereo pair (I like ORTF) front and centre.

 

Great, thanks. Would you recommend placing them at a higher level or would stage height be ok?

[J Pearce]

Head height or slightly above would be good, but you could get away with lower if you needed to.

[GR1]

Good advice from J Pearce. Good luck with the recording.

[mackerr]

Head height or slightly above would be good, but you could get away with lower if you needed to.

 

Higher is better if you can, I also prefer an MS arrangement, which you can do with 2 414s. MS has better mono compatibility if you ever need to play back in mono.

 

Mac

[indyld]

I only have the capability to record onto 2 inputs into my computer at the moment..

 

Having worked on lots of international level classical ensemble recitals that were recorded for the BBC, I can reassure you that small channel counts are often the order of the day. Any channels beyond the main two can be for audience reaction or additional pickup of the room itself.

Edited April 17, 2021 by indyld

[sandall]

I also prefer an MS arrangement, which you can do with 2 414s. MS has better mono compatibility if you ever need to play back in mono.

True, but the recording would then need decoding to play in stereo, so adding a level of complexity. For choir & orchestral recordings I have always used a stereo-pair (slung whenever possible, otherwise on a 12'+ stand), sometimes augmented with solo mics (not needed in the OP's situation).

[J Pearce]

I like M/S too, but for someone who is new to the recording world it's a bit of an advanced technique and easy to get wrong, especially with multi pattern mics that don't always have a perfect and predictable figure of 8 pattern. A stereo pair is pretty reliable at getting something good and usable.

 

As Rob says, a lot of classical broadcast and recording is done with just 2 mics, or with 2 mics providing the bulk of the output - so mk_193 don't feel this is a 'cheap' solution. Indeed with your C414s it's not far off an industry standard setup!

[Trunker]

I have recorded Brass Bands and Orchestras several time using a pair of AKG 414 Microphones (amongst others). These microphones would suit the job best from the stock you have. Achieving the desired sound required can be a mixture of:- 1. Good Positioning, 2. Room Acoustics, 3. Spacing between players (phasing of sound waves and instruments can make a difference to the recorded sound) 4. An element of luck.

 

Don't let this put you off. Ask the String group to 'rehearse' and as they are playing, don't be afraid to experiment and move the microphones around a little bit. The closer you place the microphones to the group, the more 'isolated' the recording will sound i.e. quite 'dead/dry'. The further away the microphone placement, a more 'Ambient' sound will be achieved, but too far away and it could sound 'thin/washy'.

 

A separate 'isolated' room with monitors for you to hear the 'mic'd' sound would be an advantage before the recording actually begins.

 

I'd definitely go for the C414s. Probably a stereo pair (I like ORTF) front and centre.

 

Definitely a great pattern to use, but remembering to have distance between the microphones and the sound 'source'. I normally would use ORTF with an additional centre mic to make sure any dead spot or 'hole' is covered - (depends on the pick-up axis of the main mics though).

[Shez]

I'm currently reading "Classical recording - a practical guide in the Decca tradition" which is a really comprehensive guide to all manner of recording scenarios.

 

Their suggestions usually involve two pairs (one main and one more for ambiance) but for your situation, a single ORTF pair would be sensible. They suggest a height of 2.7m and about 1.6m in front of the players, angled vertically to favour those furthest away. If you can safely sling them, that would of course be the most visually unobtrusive otherwise a stereo bar on a single, suitably tall, stand is about your only option. The cameras won't like that though.

[mk_193]

Thanks everyone for your help - the recording went well, and I'm really happy with the results!

 

Reading your comments about how a lot of classical broadcasting is done with just 2 mics, leads me to wonder if this will suffice for other events I have coming up; I know I'll have bigger groups with more of a variety of instruments.. I'm pretty limited on resources and being new to recording I'm not sure how I'd achieve a multitrack recording should I need to. Unless there's a fairly inexpensive USB audio interface that has more than 2 48v inputs?

[richardash1981]

Thanks everyone for your help - the recording went well, and I'm really happy with the results!

Good to hear it!

Reading your comments about how a lot of classical broadcasting is done with just 2 mics, leads me to wonder if this will suffice for other events I have coming up; I know I'll have bigger groups with more of a variety of instruments.. I'm pretty limited on resources and being new to recording I'm not sure how I'd achieve a multitrack recording should I need to.

The obvious (basic) comment is that just 2 microphones tends to sound like it does live - so a good group in a good room sounds good live, and (at least can) sound good on the recording. A good chunk of the justification for multi-mic and multi-channel is the extra options it gives for "fixing" things afterwards, if it isn't quite so good live.I should add that trying to replace an instrument in a live recording is unlikely to be successful, because you will likely have too much spill (microphones picking up each other's sound) to delete the original completely. But you still have more options for fixing balance, reverb etc. with more channels than with two.

Unless there's a fairly inexpensive USB audio interface that has more than 2 48v inputs?

No idea what interface you are recording with at the moment, so hard to know what "inexpensive" corresponds to. The Behringer U-PHORIA UMC404HD has an impressive feature set, but I don't know anyone who has used one to comment on the sound quality etc.

If your existing interface has more than 2 channels, but only two mic preamps, you could consider using one of the little "notepad" mixers to get you two more microphone pre-amps and gain controls, then feed into the interface at line level. Doing this for more than two channels tends to get spaghetti, unless you get a rather bigger (and bulkier) mixer which has insert points, and use those to feed line level audio the computer. It's remarkably hard to find stand-alone microphone preamps which are "workhorse" (like you would find in an interface or reasonable mixer) as opposed to "nice sounding" ones with tubes etc. in them - which are expensive, fragile, and rarely what you want for this sort of job.

[Trunker]

Thanks everyone for your help - the recording went well, and I'm really happy with the results!

 

I'm pretty limited on resources and being new to recording I'm not sure how I'd achieve a multitrack recording should I need to. Unless there's a fairly inexpensive USB audio interface that has more than 2 48v inputs?

 

Maybe something like this would be worth looking at if you are on a budget.

 

https://www.andertons.co.uk/live-pa/pa-systems/live-mixers/soundcraft-signature-12mtk-mixer-with-multitrack-usb-interface

[sandall]

Maybe something like this would be worth looking at if you are on a budget.

https://www.anderton...k-usb-interface

If you want a USB mixer, rather than an interface with more mic channels, look at the Behringer USB mixer range, from under £90 for 4 mic channels.