LED globes or chinese lanterns?

[bruce]

A pal came to me with an idea today - for a function (way in the future, and to be honest pretty unlikely to happen!) they have the idea of having some reasonably bright “globes” hanging around a room - think chinese lanterns - colour and brightness controllable of course, and need to be reasonably bright. He even had an idea for a design - a piece of plastic drainpipe, about 15cm long (think about the size of a can of coke!) wrapped in LED tape would be the source. Effectively a LED “light bulb”.

 

I reckon that it could be a bright enough source - it’d take about 2m of LED tape.

 

But his idea for the “globe” was to use one of those 18” paper lampshades you get in Ikea and the like for a couple of quid. While it’s the sort of look (and price!) that they’re after, they hadn’t thought about fire retardancy...

 

Any ideas on alternatives?

[Don Allen]

Wire hanging baskets , if you can get one with a spiral frame it will suit the tape ?

[musht]

FR paper lanterns not uncommon

 

https://www.candlebagsuk.co.uk/12inch-fire-proof-paper-hanging-lanterns-30cm-white.html

[alistermorton]

You'd kind of hope that any furnishing item sold by Ikea would be fire retardant anyway.

[sandall]

You'd kind of hope that any furnishing item sold by Ikea would be fire retardant anyway.

You might, but I'm pretty sure none of the Japanese lanterns round my house are fire-resistant (mostly labelled as limited to 60W, regardless of size or where sourced), & I can find no indication of fire-resistance for the paper lanterns on Ikea's website. They aren't furnishings, which must be fire-resistant, but AFAIK the IET haven't yet insisted that as electrical enclosures they must be made of metal....

[alistermorton]

Time for a flame test, then. I'm no expert (clearly) but I've seen reference to BS EN 60598-1-2008 and that luminaires should be fire resistant to comply, so I guess that's a starting point.

Edited March 9, 2021 by alistermorton

[sandall]

For a function, rather than a domestic setting, I would be looking for fire-resistance, but all the paper globes I've met attach in some way to the cable, rather than being part of the luminaire itself, so would BS EN 60598-1-2008 apply?

[alistermorton]

Good question, but I did see some references to lampshades needing to comply with BS EN 60598-1-2008.

[sunray]

Good question, but I did see some references to lampshades needing to comply with BS EN 60598-1-2008.

I'll confirm that lampshades we were looking at in BHS complied so that must have been something like 8-10 years ago.

 

 

EDIT: I'l say there was a BS number but couldn't comment on whether it was or wasn't EN 60598-1-2008

Edited March 9, 2021 by sunray

[Dave m]

There is a company that sells paper Chinese lanterns for film and tv use, so presumably they have some FR?LED isn't (hopefully) going the generate heat, so it's not like a fault would make them burst into flames. One option would be to run everything on 12v (or low voltage of some sort) with mains transformers well away from the paper?Can you flambar paper?

 

http://www.makew.co.uk/chinese-lanterns/

 

[timsabre]

LED tape actually bursts into flames quite easily, I have had it happen several times - if you get a short then the relatively high resistance of the PCB tracking makes it heat up, and you usually have quite a big PSU on the end of it which happily delivers the current.

[bruce]

I wonder where I can find more info on flambar and paper? Maybe on the Blue Room, they usually know this sort of stuff :-)

https://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=36771

 

 

Thanks for the tips, keep 'em coming!

[adam2]

I can not recomend use of LED tape as is described. It will be vulnerable to overheating with many sections in close proximity. LED tape is intended for use in single runs with plenty of cooling.

 

Paper lanterns are well worth considering, preferably from a reputable supplier that offers written confirmation of being flame retardent. Use of 12 volts effectively eliminates risk of dangerous electric shock, but does NOT reduce fire risk.

 

What sort of light output is required ? And how well does it have to dim ? How important is colour temperature ?

[alistermorton]

Maybe if the tape was wrapped around an aluminium cylinder, with the coils spaced apart by the width of the tape? Cylinder acts as a heat sink. Edited March 9, 2021 by alistermorton

[sandall]

]I'll confirm that lampshades we were looking at in BHS complied so that must have been something like 8-10 years ago.

Lampshades, once fitted, will usually become an integral part of the luminaire, whereas Japanese/Chinese lanterns are usually spaced several inches from it. Quite happy to be proved wrong, but the limited amount on EN 60598-1 available to read online without taking out a mortgage suggests it only applies to luminaires & things attached to them.

 

E2A: I've never tried a flame-test on one, so await news of Alister's tests with interest, but I suspect the result would be a small amount of fine ash drifting down to the floor & possibly slight staining of the ceiling.

Edited March 9, 2021 by sandall