Total Ignorance - what was used to keep wires together before cable ti

[GruntPuppy]

Hello all,

 

Before zip ties, what did electricians use to keep cables together if they wanted a neat, tidy and safe installation of cables?

 

 

As a bit of background the Patt 23 project is on hold pending the arrival of the beast itself, plus the accessories that I, have coming to go with it (variable iris, a set of fixed irises, a variable square iris, some gobos/holder, etc) - while browsing eBay (fatal!) I came across a pair of type 43's.

 

 

They look to have been unsympathetically modified at some point in their past - Victor Frankenstein Specials - each having a gobo wheel rotator fitted, one on its' left side, one on its' right side. My plan is to have one decent standard lamp out of the pair, and to take the remaining bits and make my own Frankenstein special, with 2 wheel rotators (staggered so the wheels don't clash). I'll move the wiring for the rotator motors to the inside, and panel-mount some period toggle switches to keep it neat and usable.

 

What did electricians use to keep wires together safely before cable ties though? I'm like to run the live and neutral wires in a single run to each switch and motor. I realise that there will be some case drilling to fit P-clips to control the runs, I have a friend who can help with period-looking overbraids for the wires, but I'd dearly like to keep it looking nice on the inside as well as the outside - and I'd like to pay some respect to the past.

 

As always, any and all information will be much appreciated.

Edited November 1, 2020 by GruntPuppy

[kerry davies]

Do you mean "lacing"?

I thought that people doing "plate wiring" were still taught lacing and loom making? I still have a groove on the outside of my right index finger where the waxed string bit.

 

More modern was braided flexible sleeving which car restorers use as a shortcut and are the basis for "snakes". If you look on line for "making a car wiring harness" or "DIY wiring looms" there are videos galore and a choice of step by step guides, some more useful than others.

 

This may be nothing like what you are after but it might be a start.

 

 

E2A Cross-post with Adam who may be closer than me to what is required.

Edited November 1, 2020 by kerry davies

[adam2]

Before cable ties, insulating tape or pieces of string were used, or the installation was designed not to need ties. Within complex electronic equipment "lacing cord" was used. Simple equipment such as theatre lanterns or electric heaters often used rigid single core wire for internal connections that stayed in place once installed.

 

In the case of fixed installations, then much use was made of conduit or trunking so as to minimise the amount of flexible cord. When large scale use of multiple flexible cords was unaviodable as in theatre lighting, then wrought iron hooks fixed to the building structure were used. Flexible cords could be neatly hung from these hooks and removed when needs changed, these are still sometimes used.

 

Large armoured power cables were fixed to the building structure with cleats, and still are.

Edited November 1, 2020 by adam2

[GruntPuppy]

Do you mean "lacing"?

I thought that people doing "plate wiring" were still taught lacing and loom making? I still have a groove on the outside of my right index finger where the waxed string bit.

 

More modern was braided flexible sleeving which car restorers use as a shortcut and are the basis for "snakes". If you look on line for "making a car wiring harness" or "DIY wiring looms" there are videos galore and a choice of step by step guides, some more useful than others.

 

This may be nothing like what you are after but it might be a start.

 

 

E2A Cross-post with Adam who may be closer than me to what is required.

 

 

Before cable ties, insulating tape or pieces of string were used, or the installation was designed not to need ties. Within complex electronic equipment "lacing cord" was used. Simple equipment such as theatre lanterns or electric heaters often used rigid single core wire for internal connections that stayed in place once installed.

 

In the case of fixed installations, then much use was made of conduit or trunking so as to minimise the amount of flexible cord. When large scale use of multiple flexible cords was unaviodable as in theatre lighting, then wrought iron hooks fixed to the building structure were used. Flexible cords could be neatly hung from these hooks and removed when needs changed, these are still sometimes used.

 

Large armoured power cables were fixed to the building structure with cleats, and still are.

 

Well, goodness. Two very, very useful posts indeed! I'd never heard of electrical twine until this point, and am now thoroughly fascinated. Whether I'd be able to do it neatly with my grumbly fingers is another matter, but it's certainly something to aspire to. The use of insulating tape is a possibility, the use of rigid single core wire is an interesting possibility, as is twisting the wire, I suppose.

 

Thank you for your help, gents.

[Don Allen]

Good illustrated article on Lacing for Cable Looms. You can still buy waxed string from RS Components .

[Junior8]

As late as 1970 Furse products were still supplied with three separate asbestos covered conductors passing through a simple cable gland. It was archaic then. For strapping cables to bars it was insulating tape and the new plastic type had happily replaced the old fabric type which could be very unpleasant to use and rolls stored for any length of time became incredibly manky. When I went into the coin machine industry in 1973 working on a drinks machine line somebody had invented the plastic spiral cable containment system for wiring looms which gave a very tidy job but wasn't so clever in pre-manufactured looms which turned out to be faulty when they were installed as you had to wind back yards of the stuff making simple repairs pointless - indeed I made a loom tester especially for the job so that we could test the blasted things before they went in and could send them straight to the bin. (It might have been an idea if they'd been tested by the makers.) I don't recall cable ties being widely available in all sizes back then indeed I can't recall when I first saw one but I don't remember anything like the really long ones which have been developed once folk realised just how wide the application of the locking zip principle could be. Kerry might have a groove on his finger but a really nice string tied loom by a skilled worker could be a joy to behold.

[Jivemaster]

I remember but don't want to revisit lanterns having L & N wired in asbestos wool insulated 7 strand cable and the earth being a plain copper braid spiral wound round an asbestos covered pair and secured with a half hitch at each end. Then there was the tarred cotton braid used as insulating tape.

 

Sometimes history is better left behind.

 

One drop of water and asbestos wool is a fair conductor of electricity.

 

For hot location wires inside a case or cabinet I'd look for ceramic beads, and maybe nickel wire. For warm locations there is flex intended for wiring immersion heaters which is good to probably 75C continuous, check the spec for what you find. For in a box use ceramic body terminal blocks are readily available.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Jivemaster

[timsabre]

You don't say what size lamp you're fitting but with the rated lamp it gets very hot in there - too hot for cable ties, p clips or even lacing - hence the asbestos cabling used originally.

[sandall]

As late as 1970 Furse products were still supplied with three separate asbestos covered conductors passing through a simple cable gland.

Ditto Strand, at least for their floods, though they used 3 stiff black conductors. I recall having to rewire a load of Patt 60s & 137s some time this century. Still in use until quite recently.

[GruntPuppy]

As late as 1970 Furse products were still supplied with three separate asbestos covered conductors passing through a simple cable gland. It was archaic then. For strapping cables to bars it was insulating tape and the new plastic type had happily replaced the old fabric type which could be very unpleasant to use and rolls stored for any length of time became incredibly manky. When I went into the coin machine industry in 1973 working on a drinks machine line somebody had invented the plastic spiral cable containment system for wiring looms which gave a very tidy job but wasn't so clever in pre-manufactured looms which turned out to be faulty when they were installed as you had to wind back yards of the stuff making simple repairs pointless - indeed I made a loom tester especially for the job so that we could test the blasted things before they went in and could send them straight to the bin. (It might have been an idea if they'd been tested by the makers.) I don't recall cable ties being widely available in all sizes back then indeed I can't recall when I first saw one but I don't remember anything like the really long ones which have been developed once folk realised just how wide the application of the locking zip principle could be. Kerry might have a groove on his finger but a really nice string tied loom by a skilled worker could be a joy to behold.

 

 

I remember but don't want to revisit lanterns having L & N wired in asbestos wool insulated 7 strand cable and the earth being a plain copper braid spiral wound round an asbestos covered pair and secured with a half hitch at each end. Then there was the tarred cotton braid used as insulating tape.

 

Sometimes history is better left behind.

 

One drop of water and asbestos wool is a fair conductor of electricity.

 

For hot location wires inside a case or cabinet I'd look for ceramic beads, and maybe nickel wire. For warm locations there is flex intended for wiring immersion heaters which is good to probably 75C continuous, check the spec for what you find. For in a box use ceramic body terminal blocks are readily available.

 

My goodness, there are some horror stories there! I'll quite happily use modern domestic mains cable, strip the outer insulator off and use overbraids on the individual insulated wires to give a more period look to the wiring I'm going to do. I suppose as long as it doesn't look glaringly modern and - more importantly - is safe, I'll be happy.

[Junior8]

Horror now but it's what they had back then. It is half a century or more ago.

[GruntPuppy]

You don't say what size lamp you're fitting but with the rated lamp it gets very hot in there - too hot for cable ties, p clips or even lacing - hence the asbestos cabling used originally.

 

They'll be entering gentle retirement in my lounge and bedroom, so LED bulbs in e37 (from memory) holders will be the order of the day. The cabling I'm planning will be overkill in the extreme for the current I'm dealing with. I must remember to get a little plate for the inside saying what bulbs to use, seeing as one is probably going to my parents.

 

 

 

 

Good illustrated article on Lacing for Cable Looms. You can still buy waxed string from RS Components .

 

It's a great article - chapter 9 of this is pretty damn cool as well https://standards.nasa.gov/standard/osma/nasa-std-87394

[sunray]

Good illustrated article on Lacing for Cable Looms. You can still buy waxed string from RS Components .

I'd have been shot at dawn if I used the knots in that article.

 

You don't say what size lamp you're fitting but with the rated lamp it gets very hot in there - too hot for cable ties, p clips or even lacing - hence the asbestos cabling used originally.

 

They'll be entering gentle retirement in my lounge and bedroom, so LED bulbs in e37 (from memory) holders will be the order of the day. The cabling I'm planning will be overkill in the extreme for the current I'm dealing with. I must remember to get a little plate for the inside saying what bulbs to use, seeing as one is probably going to my parents.

 

 

 

 

Good illustrated article on Lacing for Cable Looms. You can still buy waxed string from RS Components .

 

It's a great article - chapter 9 of this is pretty damn cool as well https://standards.na.../nasa-std-87394

Thats more like it. Edited November 1, 2020 by sunray

[Brian]

I would avoid domestic PVC cable inside a lantern. It will go brittle within hours of being exposed to heat. At least use a proper high temperature lantern cable. PM me if you can't find it in short lengths.

[Cerbertech]

Probably not Gobo wheels on the side but a colour changer spinning disk with different coloured gels.

 

They were used without control i.e. just continuously spinning in a lot of clubs, more advanced was a separate switched circuit for the motor and guess work switching to get the colour you wanted.

 

Good luck with the restorations and look forward to seeing the progress.