PA hire viable?

[handyman]

Hi

I have an IT rental business which is in the corporate world. I have been doign it for 5 years and have built it to the point that I can rely on it for a good solid income.

There a juggernauts in this industry, with several million pounds worth of capital assets on their balance sheets, 6-7 directors and 40+ employees.

 

I don't want the stress of building a massive business like that, I think when operations become bigger they are more prone to troubles due to economic downturns, competitors. Also I don't want to be responsbile for ensuring 40 people have a job and they can pay their mortgages round the 12 calender months.

I want to grow sideways into the DJ equipment/party hire business. I like that its not corporate and can deal with customers in an informal basis, which makes it easier to use casual hires.

I'd like some advice on the feasability of running a profitable DJ equipment hire business for parties, sort of entry level mixing decks, speakers, entry level light bars etc.

[Brian]

I want to grow sideways into the DJ equipment/party hire business. I like that its not corporate and can deal with customers in an informal basis, which makes it easier to use casual hires.

I'd like some advice on the feasability of running a profitable DJ equipment hire business for parties, sort of entry level mixing decks, speakers, entry level light bars etc.

 

I would steer well away. The going rate for a typical disco has not changed in the last 20+ years. There are still plenty of people, with thousands invested in kit and vehicle, prepared to go out on a Saturday night for £150. They might call it a business but in reality it's a hobby.

 

And be prepared to replace your equipment regularly as it'll not be looked after.

 

 

[E2A]

 

To put some context on pricing...many many years ago (25+) I used to run a disco. I have a friend who still does. He has a huge investment in good kit. And yet he struggles to get half of what I was getting when I packed it in.

[paulears]

A friend runs an old fashioned disco - kids parties and weddings - that kind of thing, and £150 is pretty close to what he gets for a job. Who would be hiring the kit?

 

I've got a number of PA systems - and very rarely ever hire them locally, because bands can't afford even the disco price on the amounts they get paid. I'm very choosy who I dry hire to - which locally means just two other PA firms when they need something a little bigger - and if they want the kit and me - the locals think the price outrageous. Luckily, I can afford for it to be unused 75% of the year.

[Jivemaster]

Disco is bad paying chaos for three weeks up to jan 1st then nothing, really nothing, til the wedding season. Then it's saturday clients who think £50 is terribly expensive and expect free delivery. One set of kit will go missing each year, your kit will get trashed.

 

Been there done that and glad I'm out of it.

[TonyMitchell]

Hi

I have an IT rental business which is in the corporate world. I have been doign it for 5 years and have built it to the point that I can rely on it for a good solid income.

There a juggernauts in this industry, with several million pounds worth of capital assets on their balance sheets, 6-7 directors and 40+ employees.

 

I don't want the stress of building a massive business like that, I think when operations become bigger they are more prone to troubles due to economic downturns, competitors. Also I don't want to be responsbile for ensuring 40 people have a job and they can pay their mortgages round the 12 calender months.

I want to grow sideways into the DJ equipment/party hire business. I like that its not corporate and can deal with customers in an informal basis, which makes it easier to use casual hires.

I'd like some advice on the feasability of running a profitable DJ equipment hire business for parties, sort of entry level mixing decks, speakers, entry level light bars etc.

 

If you progress what you're thinking, give it a year and it will completely change your outlook in that you will love and respect the structured, corporate way of working more, whilst loathing and resenting the "casual/informal" approach that you currently think may be good.

It won't be good. From your introduction, you're used to dealing with intelligent situations & people who are likely adhere to their side of the contract, are solvent and look after the rental/leased equipment. Welcome to dealing with the exact opposite.

 

As others have already indicated, there's probably no real market to rent out "entry level" DJ equipment, when dave doubledecks can buy a secondhand pair of powered speakers, a laptop with 50,000 low bitrate MP3s and a few lights that flash coloured dots around the room for a few hundred quid from gumtree.

 

So the next level up comprises those who will either trash your kit, fill up the decks with beer and leave cigarette burns on your mixer, or hire it with the outright intention of never returning it. Every one of these donkeys that phone or email you will be a "qualified sound engineer", whatever that means. Just accept it, it's a thing. Pioneer CDJs and DJMs are the most sought after items in these circles, as they can be converted into cash (weed) quickly, with no questions asked.

 

We do hire out CDJs, DJMs and 1210s, but, and it's a big 'but' - only when also hired with a d&b audiotechnik sound system package, to corporate events and high end weddings where the technician arrives, sets up, stays with the kit to engineer/babysit and removes it at the end of the night. Never do we dry hire and never do we leave kit unattended. No exceptions, not for anybody. Which is why this only represents a very small part of our overall PA business.

Edited March 6, 2020 by TonyMitchell

[handyman]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Appreciate it.

I didn't consider the pitfalls of this industry. With the corporate hires I can count on one hand the number of times items were damaged over the 5 years Ive been doing the IT rental business. The reason why I want to get my hand at something else is because it's very important to diversify in business.

 

I managed to keep my IT rental business profitable because I have deliberately stunted its growth, clients always want newer units and more units than you have. It's temptting to go after the sale and invest in more/newer equipment but you're just buying capital assets foor the business and struggle to pay yourself a wage. I also just snipe at a subsection of IT equipment (which I wont name), which are highly profitable, easy to carry (not bulky).

Case in point, the biggest player in the market rents everything IT related, including photocopiers, commercial printers etc. These things cost a fortune in storage, and transportation, need 2 man delivery, forklift loading etc. I've just sniped and picked out items that I can send via DPD, and yeilds 25% of cost price for just 1 week rental.

 

The downside is I do have to update items to keep my offering up to date, I try to buy a year late when prices come down significantly - a lot of the times I buy very good quality refurbished which is a fraction of what it would have cost brand new when it first came out.

 

PA hire looks appealing because you can have speakers that are 10 years old, nobody hiring them is going to know or tell that they're that old. I'm based in London, so I know the opportunity here is huge, people have money to spend, there's a very high concentration of people so you'll always find rentors.

I guess the advice Im getting is stay away from dry hire to personal rentors, always supply equipment with staff, and if possible go after the commercial market rather than individuals.

 

 

 

 

[kerry davies]

We don't know enough about you and where you are situated makes a difference but the guys are broadly correct. You can usually find one "Barry's Disco Centre" in most towns of around 100,000 or more but only one. There isn't enough trade for more. Most marquee companies carry some sound and plenty of lighting to cater for the majority of weddings and you just cannot compete with the specialist wedding venues on quality or price.

 

With the best will in the world and despite all indications to the contrary you will be dealing with idiots and careless ones at that. I could give examples but you wouldn't believe how stupid some of the "hirers" are likely to be.

 

Then they get drunk!

 

OK, so you are in London and I can now be more specific, don't bother. Yes, there is opportunity but the competition is incredible and as Brian writes, prices are unreal. To top it off you would need to offer free delivery and collection as most of the London competition seems to.

Edited March 6, 2020 by kerry davies

[Ynot]

On the whole, in my experience, DJs tend to mostly have their own gear. So unless you want to look at the option of short notice hire for bits that they've lost or had damaged, I can't see much of a market...

[sunray]

On the whole, in my experience, DJs tend to mostly have their own gear. So unless you want to look at the option of short notice hire for bits that they've lost or had damaged, I can't see much of a market...

I'm finding that DJ's fall into 4 categories

1/ Full blown and complete, carries a van/trailer full of gear and can offer a varying system depending on customers requirements, room size etc. Usually put up a good system and a good show but usually ar too loud

 

2/ Has A system which can only be used in one setup, the sort of thing where they'd be so proud they film setting up and boast on youtube. This will be of unknown quality ranging from rubbish to fantastic

 

3/ Has the absolute minimum sound system - 2 speakers, Ipod & totally inaudible mic.

4/ So called 'Guest DJ' - Carries Laptop/Ipad or a box of vinyl and nothing else.

 

Sadly the customer doesn't always know what they're booking and often gets it wrong.

Edited March 7, 2020 by sunray

[paulears]

I've always looked for the button they must have on their systems that at some point in the night they press and overlying becomes distorted, painful and nasty to listen to. It doesn't seem to be a volume knob, just one that turns a quite nice sounding system into that characteristic every disco does it train wreck?

[TonyMitchell]

I've always looked for the button they must have on their systems that at some point in the night they press and overlying becomes distorted, painful and nasty to listen to. It doesn't seem to be a volume knob, just one that turns a quite nice sounding system into that characteristic every disco does it train wreck?

 

@Paul - the low bitrate MP3 rips I mentioned earlier do all of those things, without a button.

 

@Sunray - there's another category, sure there'll be more...

 

5/ club djs booked to play at private/corporate events "because they are amazing as they play at <insert whatever club name>". They travel light with a single USB stick and subject a mixed age audience to whatever their niche genre is for four hours, completely oblivious to the fact that the dancefloor is empty, but still demanding more volume both at FOH and in their already stupidly loud monitors just a few inches from their head.

Edited March 7, 2020 by TonyMitchell

[cedd]

I’d also venture that the workload of a DJ is becoming less and less these days too. I remember kids discos as a child (everybody had one at some point it felt) with the DJ and cases and cases of cd’s. Today anybody with a Spotify account can buy an active “home disco speaker with built in light effects” for a few quid and do their own. Of course higher end jobs will still support a DJ, but how many? And they’ll likely have their own kit.

Find an income stream that’s reliable. For me at the minute (aside from the shows I’m mixing myself) it’s radio mics to schools and local theatres. I’ve specifically invested in ones that will operate alongside existing kit they’ve got. I’m affordable and they know they always get sent with spares, that I’ll always be on the end of the phone, and that if something comes back a little bit broken but I can fix it, they won’t be getting a bill. They’re reliable at paying and appreciate my help. As they’re schools or theatres I also know exactly where my kit is and where to go if the cheque doesn’t arrive. A friend who ran a DJ and PA equipment hire business used to have to have a safe in which he kept the hirer’s passport or driving license while they had his kit in order to provide some sort of security in getting his stuff back. And it still didn’t work.

[sunray]

I'd also venture that the workload of a DJ is becoming less and less these days too. I remember kids discos as a child (everybody had one at some point it felt) with the DJ and cases and cases of cd's. Today anybody with a Spotify account can buy an active "home disco speaker with built in light effects" for a few quid and do their own. Of course higher end jobs will still support a DJ, but how many? And they'll likely have their own kit.

Find an income stream that's reliable. For me at the minute (aside from the shows I'm mixing myself) it's radio mics to schools and local theatres. I've specifically invested in ones that will operate alongside existing kit they've got. I'm affordable and they know they always get sent with spares, that I'll always be on the end of the phone, and that if something comes back a little bit broken but I can fix it, they won't be getting a bill. They're reliable at paying and appreciate my help. As they're schools or theatres I also know exactly where my kit is and where to go if the cheque doesn't arrive. A friend who ran a DJ and PA equipment hire business used to have to have a safe in which he kept the hirer's passport or driving license while they had his kit in order to provide some sort of security in getting his stuff back. And it still didn't work.

Basically I'm a small time PA service, Fetes, sports days, small band PA, school shows, AmDram show etc. So I don't have a warehouse full of racked systems and I've avoided dry hire apart from 3 times.

1/ A guy came begging for mic cables a corporate training event, they had a selection of rooms in a hotel for a week and he was going to be moving kit back and forth between the rooms as needed. He left a £5K deposit in cash which would have nearly covered the lot and took away 4 whole systems including a 6 way multicore (6 twisted pairs with overall screen and common ground across all connector like Belden 9506) which I made up specifically for the job such that it could fit under a partition, with description of its limitations. On return he was worried to admit a 20m mic cable had got chewed and looked mortified when I cut it each side of the damage,however hed put it in a bag to highlight the damage. Everything else was imacculate. He asked if I would sell the multicore, which I sold him (personally not the company) for the cost of the parts and didn't charge for the damaged mic lead (just put 2 connectors on it like I'd done a few times before for myself).

2/ Friend of a friend do do their wedding speeches - 100w amp, 2 speakers & stands, 2 (cheap) radio mics & one mic stand. When it came back I couldn't see that one corner of a speaker had received a nasty smack and the black cabinet covering had been filled with bluetack. Very professionally I'll admit but it soon failed and I suspect one mic took a drink.

 

3/ A small system - 100w amp, 2 speakers & stands, SM58 & one mic stand. For a singer/guitarist for his first gig, he left a fairly small deposit and passport. Never saw him again and the police were totally disintersted, didn't even want to take any details but eventually took the passport from me. False address and all leads on the passport led nowhere.

 

I can't think why I never got involved with dry hire anymore.

Edited March 8, 2020 by sunray

[Stuart91]

The downside is I do have to update items to keep my offering up to date,

 

I deliberately don't carry CDJs, turntables, or DJ mixers for this reason. It seems like every month there is a new model that becomes the only acceptable option on riders. I've no idea how people generate the return on investment when kit becomes unfashionable so quickly.

[ninjadingle]

Just a thought - if you're looking to diversify into the AV industry you might want to look at providing AV networks for larger scale events. AV over IP is getting bigger every day, and Dante audio networking is one of the few industry standards we have. I'd be looking at the larger scale corporate event companies or medium to large PA hire companies and having a conversation with them about their networking needs on events. You might need to invest in some tour grade cabling and infrastructure (if you don't already have this in stock), but if you truly understand networking getting Dante Level 3 certification should be a quick and painless process and you'll be a useful sub contractor to have on the books. Worth consideration IMO.