Pro-1-day Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Firstly hello I'm new n I need some help I'm doin a show soon n the director wants to fly a twirly upside down. good news is I got the flyin job bad news is I aint sure how 2 do it. it will be in a counter-wait building so that aint a problem and they don't have to move (peter pan stylee) they just have to b hangin thier upside down. Can ne1 on here reccommend ne good ways 2 do this? oh yeah they need to look like they r hanggin from there ankle. Thanks adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Firstly hello I'm new n I need some help I'm doin a show soon n the director wants to fly a twirly upside down. good news is I got the flyin job bad news is I aint sure how 2 do it. it will be in a counter-wait building so that aint a problem and they don't have to move (peter pan stylee) they just have to b hangin thier upside down. Can ne1 on here reccommend ne good ways 2 do this? oh yeah they need to look like they r hanggin from there ankle. Thanks adam<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Jeez! 1- Welcome!2- You don't3- Search the Blue Room (top right for the search box) It's been done to death.4- Txt speek sux5- Use the spell check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timpman19 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 hey welcome to the blue room as has been said do a quick search, this question has been covered before the conclusion being, it is not safe to hang someone upside down for more than a few seconds as they can become ill with fatal consequences. and if your going to do it, it needs to be set up and used by a professional company. the search button is your friend! regards josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 First, welcome! Second, this is a forum where Punctuation Spelling and Grammar is appreciated, better posts than yours have been moderated off before. Flying a person as a moving piece is possible with proper safeguards and in many cases professional help. Inverted static suspension for a period is another thing entirely. The known hazards are for upright head UP suspension. There are physiological concerns and method concerns which need to be addressed. A lot depends on you having good contacts, and likely contracting the job to a stage flying company ( Flying by Foy is one that comes to mind there are others ) The Institute of Aviation Medicine at RAE Farnborough may advise about the inverted (negative G ) aspect.You are into the realms of a full LOLER compliant person lift requiring the plans preparation and equipment to be checked by a competent (in the meaning of the act) person, before the process of lifting is considered. Even though for appearance the suspension is to be by one ankle in reality please consider a fully dup- or triplicated system, esp as the hazard of failure isn't a broken leg or two mended after six months on traction, its DEATH, head hits hard floor -neck breaks. Further protection in the form of a deep soft energy absorbing crash mat may help. A full LOLER lifting operation plan will show the need for lots of skills you may not posess yet, including the selection of the upper suspension point and the lifting mechanism. Qualified professional help is a wonderful idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 It can't be said often enough, so here it is once again. Do not even think about trying this without engaging the services of a professional flying company. There is no other way. Yes, it will cost money, possibly lots and if the production can't afford it then the production simply can't do it. Anyway, welcome to the Blue Room. Sorry your first question has been answered with lots of nos. Hopefully we'll be able to help you out with some more positive advice in future :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 I wouldn't normally post just to repeat what someone else has said, but I'm afraid it needs reiterating on this occasion. Flying people - don't do it, get the professionals in (Foy, HiFli, etc.) Txt Speak - we really, really, really, really hate it on this forum. Post in English or don't post at all. Seriously. Spell checker - we made a big effort to incorporate it into the forum for the benefit of all members, so please make the effort to use it. Having said all that, hello, good evening and welcome! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisD Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Save yourself a lot of expensive people or injuries/death. Fly a doll/manequinne. It would be a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussmonkey Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you have to ask how do you fly someone it is quite clear that you are not capable and do not have the experience. PLEASE DON'T. I know a lot of riggers with ,any years of experience who would not even attempt to fly anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-1-day Posted June 7, 2005 Author Share Posted June 7, 2005 OK the guy we are trying to fly can stand being upside down for longer that he needs to he's been building up his tolerance using ankle supports on a chin up bar (like in lethal weapon). We can't use a dummy because he has to move. The director is going to fly this guy no matter what, doesn't have the budget to get a company in to do it for him and was planning to use the ankle supports alone. All I'm looking for is a safer way to do it. I have tried the search feature but it doesn't seem to work (probably my computer) Sorry about the txt speak, just habit. Either way this IS going to happen I wish it wasn't because its a real headache but it is. I'm just looking for help to make it safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Sorry, Pro-1-Day, but you need to get up and walk away. There is one way to make it safe: get a professional company to do it. Suspending people is much, much more dangerous than it looks. I suggest if the director(or producer) refuses the cost, you advise the performer not to do it, and then walk away from the gig. You do not want to be responsible for this. I'll repeat that for the cheap seats: Get it done properly or do not do the gig. These are the only options we will help you with. We're not trying to be harsh or unhelpful. We're giving you sound advice for your own protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Look here, and here. show you director the threads, and remind him that the show doesn't have to go on, particularly when someone is put at such risk. If he insists, walk away, and phone the HSE. Edit:- Beaten to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 While agreeing with what everyone else has said about inversion and other safety issues, another source of expert help (possibly cheaper) for this type of effect where "flying" (i.e. motion control) isn't an issue might be people from the circus world. If you're anywhere near Bristol, try Circomedia circus School, if near London, try Circus Space - they may be able to point you in the direction of some expertise. A counterweight suspension system is not the best way to go for this type of thing because of the loading/unloading needed to keep the system in reasonable equilibrium when the load is added or removed - not a procedure that is particularly convenient in show conditions. I have seen it done, but it needed lots of muscle to cope with the overhauling, and the general consensus afterwards was tht it was a bad idea. There are other more appropriate and safer ways of introducing a mechanical advantage into a suspension system. This is an affect that very experienced special effects people would think extremely hard about due to the risks described in other posts. Perhaps in the spirit of "don't ask people to do things youwouldn't do yourself", the director should be volunteering to test the system....... I assume that you mean the movie "Lethal Weapon" - just to point out that movies aren't made in real time and the camera always lies. Assuming that effects seen on screen can be replicated on stage can lead to some pretty interesting challenges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Foster Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Hopefully whoever is in charge of the theatre will make sure it doesn't happen when you get there anyway, so tell your director to come up with something else now while there's still time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 OK the guy we are trying to fly can stand being upside down for longer that he needs to he's been building up his tolerance using ankle supports on a chin up bar (like in lethal weapon). We can't use a dummy because he has to move. The director is going to fly this guy no matter what, doesn't have the budget to get a company in to do it for him and was planning to use the ankle supports alone. All I'm looking for is a safer way to do it. I have tried the search feature but it doesn't seem to work (probably my computer) Sorry about the txt speak, just habit. Either way this IS going to happen I wish it wasn't because its a real headache but it is. I'm just looking for help to make it safer.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do yourself a favour, and listen to what people are telling you. A lot of the advice in this topic is coming from experienced industry professionals who have been in the business for many years. The "I'm going to do this, no matter what" attitude of your director stinks. Big time. Are they too stupid to comprehend the fact that there's a very real possibility that thy'll find themselves looking down the barrel of a multi-million pound lawsuit because they killed a young person through their reckless disregard for the health and safety of their performers? I guess so. Unless the company are willing to do this properly and take professional advice, you really need to just walk away from it, as others have suggested. The above-mentioned lawsuit will, in all likelihood, have more than one barrel, and if you were in any way involved with designing, rigging or operating the effect one of those barrels would almost certainly be aimed at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Evans Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Director: "I want this person to fly, they must fly because it is art. I will brook no compromise" Producer "But we do not have the expertise to do this, neither do we have sufficient budget to employ a specialist company" Director: "Never mind, I will have my effect. I will lean on some young knowless person and tell them they must re-create my effect, because it is art and my art must not be interfered with." Producer: "What shall we do if it goes wrong? It is a very dangerous effect, if it is not executed properly, someone may get hurt" Director: " We shall deny all knowledge and tell everyone that safety should never be compromised for art. No-one will listen to the lowly technician who will thus shoulder all the blame for us. Now about the gunfight, I hope you are not going to tell me I should not use live ammunition? The cast need to look genuinely scared, if we use blanks it will interfere with my art...." The director can have anything they like, they just need to have the money. Art is not an excuse, however helpful you wish to appear. Trying to do this without being 100% certain of what you are doing is foolhardy. If you are not sufficiently qualified to do this your insurance company will not touch you with a barge pole. If the director tries to buly anyone into doing this then it is time for backbone to be developed and someone needs to put this person in their place before someone gets hurt. Failing that, a quiet word to the licensing authority should do the trick, I am sure they would love to hear from you. Nil illigitum carborundum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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