Hello and flying people

[Nick Evans]

Bit strong there Mac but whatever, this is the internet and you are free to express a view.

I have also fallen 6m off the top of an abseiling tower onto the concrete base, I got up, dusted myself down climbed back up and tied the rope off properly!!!

If I ever met you slim I would not work with you. You abseiled on a rope without checking it was tied to anything. You are an accident waiting to happen, no amount of advice is ever going to help you shake off your extremely shabby attitude to your own personal safety. Given that, what chance is there for those that work around you?

[slim_mcslim]

You abseiled on a rope without checking it was tied to anything.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't abseil on a rope that wasn't connected, I left the end of the rope with my friend to tie off, I walked to the edge of the tower to check it was clear below to throw the rope down, then just over balanced/lost my footing and fell. It was just a genuine accident.

 

What I am getting at in my original post is not that I think its safe to do this stunt, more that the fact that this kind of stunt goes on, whether or not someone has talked about it in an internet forum. I was reminded last night of another stunt that I have witnessed by local college film students who wanted to film a car knocking a pedestrian over on a busy A road, now in the real stunt world there are all sorts of safety policies to follow, but in their amateur world they came up with a plan, and executed it, and it worked (well no one got injured), however the potential for error was quite high if another car had pulled out of a junction in front of their target car after the go signal was given. But the end result was the stunt looked very realistic, so much so that a passing driver who was not part of the shoot pulled up to see if he could help. I have to say I was no way involved with any of this performance, it just happened all outside my office window, and I stood and watched the whole thing.

 

The whole question of "how should I do this" followed by answers "you shouldn't do this because its dangerous" just isn't good enough for the original poster, now I do agree that if you have to ask you shouldn't be doing it, but if a man asks in an internet forum "how can I build a racing kit car" I am sure the answer he receives isn't "don't build a racing car, they are dangerous". Now the idea of driving a ford cortina chasis with a lump of fibreglass bolted to it at 120mph is scary to me, but enough people do it, because they like the danger.

[Nick Evans]

Well slim you must forgive me for interpreting your ambiguous statement wrongly, however I would suggest that the implication of the statement

I have also fallen 6m off the top of an abseiling tower onto the concrete base, I got up, dusted myself down climbed back up and tied the rope off properly!!!

was that the rope was not tied off properly to start with. I would also question how you came to be at the edge of a 6 metre drop with no fall protection.

 

Yes this sort of thing goes on all the time, however it must be done under controlled circumstances. I would contend that your local film students were reckless by staging the stunt you describe, since they appear to have performed it in an uncontrolled public area. What would have happened if the passing motorist lost control of his vehicle as a result of being distracted by what he or she witnessed? The possibilities are endless, from nothing at all to having a heart attack or colliding with another vehicle or person. Since they had not considered this potential outcome, they cannot be considered to have completely thought out the stunt, therefore they were reckless.

 

Your analogy with sport is a poor one. Motor racing is acknowledged to be a dangerous past-time and the participants accept it. I dispute that most of them enjoy the danger, I think mostly they want to win and accept danger as one of the factors they must deal with. Steps are taken to ensure that racers are qualified and that they have approved safety kit (your helmet overalls, boots and gloves must also be scrutineered along with the car before you race, before you can enter a meeting you must have a licence to race.) Acting is not accepted as such an occupation. The original post (anyone remember that) concerned flying an actor upside down by his feet. The flying was to be done by someone who appeared to have no previous experience and a great many people thought that what was proposed was unwise, and said so. What most people wish to avoid is an accident where someone gets hurt, partly (a very small part probably) so that we do not incur the further wrath of local authorities and others.

[Chris Higgs]

There is also the fact that whether we like/agree with it or not, what you do in your own time is generally still up to you.

When 'the Act' applies, your employer/school/whatever and you are bound by its requirements.

The various comments, for example about when you would throw a rope away, or using a ladder in preference to a tower are valid in a non work activity.

I believe the general theory is that one is supposed to be safer at work than at home; the inference being that personal beliefs, though an undeniable right when one is held responsible for oneself, may not be appropriate for everyone. Hence speed limits, though I'm not saying I agree.

This industry has increased in size to the degree that more people are involved than ever before, and consequently 'the rules' are beginning to be more widely known. This in turn means mavericks, detractors and myth mongers are being challenged more and more. This can only be a Good Thing?

[mac.calder]

You abseiled on a rope without checking it was tied to anything.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't abseil on a rope that wasn't connected, I left the end of the rope with my friend to tie off, I walked to the edge of the tower to check it was clear below to throw the rope down, then just over balanced/lost my footing and fell. It was just a genuine accident.

 

What I am getting at in my original post is not that I think its safe to do this stunt, more that the fact that this kind of stunt goes on, whether or not someone has talked about it in an internet forum. I was reminded last night of another stunt that I have witnessed by local college film students who wanted to film a car knocking a pedestrian over on a busy A road, now in the real stunt world there are all sorts of safety policies to follow, but in their amateur world they came up with a plan, and executed it, and it worked (well no one got injured), however the potential for error was quite high if another car had pulled out of a junction in front of their target car after the go signal was given. But the end result was the stunt looked very realistic, so much so that a passing driver who was not part of the shoot pulled up to see if he could help. I have to say I was no way involved with any of this performance, it just happened all outside my office window, and I stood and watched the whole thing.

 

The whole question of "how should I do this" followed by answers "you shouldn't do this because its dangerous" just isn't good enough for the original poster, now I do agree that if you have to ask you shouldn't be doing it, but if a man asks in an internet forum "how can I build a racing kit car" I am sure the answer he receives isn't "don't build a racing car, they are dangerous". Now the idea of driving a ford cortina chasis with a lump of fibreglass bolted to it at 120mph is scary to me, but enough people do it, because they like the danger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The answer was not "You should not do it", the answer was "_YOU_ should not do it, someone with a clue should do it, using the correct equiptment with safety measures in place to ensure that the HAZARD is reduced, and so is the RISK."

 

The collage students were reckless and need a good kick up the rear end.

 

Your comment about these things happening in the ammeature world, whilst true, they do happen, in reality, they shouldnt. Most Amdrams I have worked with are either a business, or at least an NPO. That means that all the restrictions on a pro theatre basically apply to them (although the union rules etc do not). The difference between Amdram and Pro, is pay - Amdram are not paid. That says to me that Amdram should attempt to make themselves safer than pro theatre because the actors and crew are not paid to risk their life.

 

You have to keep your rear end covered in this world, and in someways that is a good thing. In others, not so, but that is a story for another day. When an accident does happen, the ammeature world will get a wakeup call. I just hope it does not cost a life before these people realise that their art is not worth it.