Sound source options

[rob_cheese]

Hi,

 

One of our CD players has just died, and before attempting to replace it like-for-like, I was wondering what most people use for sound recording and playback?

 

We're a small Amdram group, and have managed pretty well with a couple of Hifi cd players, but do tend to end up burning a lot of CDs. I'm slightly reluctant to use a laptop as we've had quite a few issues with power-supply noise, or driver problems if attempting to use an external sound card instead, but was wondering about an SD/usb recorder, perhaps. (The ability to record would be another nice to have feature.) I've found a few of these boxes after a quick search, but am slightly worried that the buttons seem a bit small and hard to find in semi-darkness. (We tend to run the sound from within the auditorium). Another option might be to go for one of the Numark CD players, which will play from USB, and have large play buttons, but things like the pitch benders could catch out some of our less tech-savvy members, and I can't see one which does recording. SOmething like that TASCAM SS-CDR250N looks ideal, but sadly has a price that's a little to far out of reach.

 

Budget: probably £200 ish

use: playback during shows, house music, recording effects

Other nice to haves: large buttons, simple interface

 

I'd appeciate all thoughts and suggestions; what equipment do you use and/or what would you recommend?

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

[kgallen]

Laugh if you like but in the past 18 months I've gone back to minidisc. Fed up with CD players not loading discs, not reading the titles, not playing, skipping, stopping mid track - and with clean fresh CDs I've burnt myself. Also CDs have a minimum track length of 6 seconds which is useless when I've got quick succession short sound effects. I find CDs incredibly unreliable with titling. Some work, some sometimes, some identical ones don't. Everyone talks about CD blue books and orange books etc but I find CD just so hit and miss. MD titles and works, guaranteed and any half decent machine has Auto Pause and probably Auto Cue which are essential. These options are more rare on CD players and you have to check the specs carefully.

 

CD wise I've got Numark MP103 which is nice for its big display and has big buttons - not withstanding the CD issues above. I've also got Tascam.

 

MD wise I've now got rackmount pro series Tascam and Sony. All ex eBay and virtually new/unused. All around £100.

 

I need reliability as I'm running both LX and SX and MD gives me that peace of mind and 'under the finger' response.

 

I don't have a NetMD minidisc so I can't write from a PC which is the pain of MD over CD but I can live with that for the other MD benefits.

 

For MD you can look at Sony d0m3stic machines MDS-JE520 and above or the pro MDS-E10 or E12. Tascam probably MD-350. Pro ones have PS/2 keyboard inputs so titling is a breeze. There are E10s and E12s on eBay now. Ok some at silly prices. There are more JE520 and JE530 than you can wave a stick at. You need the RM-D15M remote to make titling practical. You could get a decent one for less than 50 quid.

 

Kevin

[RedDog]

Laptop every time....Never have sound problems caused by power supply, lots of free audio recording software, and using a usb sound card - good quality playback.Personally it's a Macbook Pro, but other manufactures are available...

 

Laugh if you like but in the past 18 months I've gone back to minidisc. Fed up with CD players not loading discs, not playing, skipping, stopping mid track - and with clean fresh CDs I've burnt myself. Also CDs have a minimum track length of 6 seconds which is useless when I've got quick succession short sound effects. Also I find CDs incredibly unreliable with titling. Some work, some identical ones don't. Everyone talks about CD blue books and orange books etc but I find CD just so hit and miss. MD titles and works, guaranteed and any half decent machine has Auto Pause and probably Auto Cue which are essential. These options are more rare on CD players and you have to check the specs carefully.

 

CD wise I've got Numark MP103 which is nice for its big display and has big buttons - not withstanding the CD issues above. I've also got Tascam.

 

MD wise I've now got rackmount pro series Tascam and Sony. All ex eBay and virtually new/unused. All around £100.

 

I need reliability as I'm running both LX and SX and MD gives me that piece of mind and 'under the finger' response.

 

I don't have a NetMD minidisc so I can't write from a PC which is the pain of MD over CD but I can live with that for the other MD benefits.

 

For MD you can look at Sony domestic machines MDS-JE520 and above or the pro MDS-E10 or E12. Tascam probably MD-350. Pro ones have PS2 keyboard inputs so titling is a breeze. There are E10s and E12s on eBay now. Ok some at silly prices. There are more JE520 and JE530 than you can wave a stick at. You need the RM-D15M remote to make titling practical. You could get a decent one for less than 50 quid.

 

Kevin

[sclg]

Laptop for us too - volunteer-run theatre. Makes preparation of effects, etc so much easier and Show Cue Systems makes everything a doddle.Never had a problem of PSU noise or soundcard issues - and we've used both cheap and expensive. (Even easier now that it goes straight into an X32!)

We have had both CD and MD platers available for over 20 years and although a few visiting companies use the CD player, I don't think the MD one has been used for over a decade. (Although I'd agree with Kevin that it's better than CD!)

Steve

 

[kgallen]

Having a small UPS inline is always a good move whatever kit you're using! (Another topic we were discussing not so long ago on BR!).

[Shez]

I was going to suggest MD too if you really don't want to go down the computer route. I still look fondly back to the days I used to run whole shows from them!

 

However, I would suggest it might be worth tracking down someone suitably technically savvy to get you set up with an old laptop to at least try it out properly. Such a person would easily be able to get you set up with a decent external soundcard and make sure you didn't have PSU noise or driver issues. Coupled with some basic playout software, you have loads more options available to you.

 

Back on the hardware front, I suspect you may struggle to find a single device (other than MD) that's good for playback but also has decent recording facilities. You could perhaps look at a basic Zoom recorder if you need to record sound effects?

[alistermorton]

We use a mac with qlab, but used to use a pc with scs. Both work exceptionally well. A decent sound card helps (or USB straight into your mixer ...) if you need more than stereo, and often you can squelch psu noise with a di box.

[Dave m]

https://tascam.com/us/product/ss-r250n/top

An SD card player/recorder is good but an expensive option that doesn't necessarily fit in with the relatively universal, if old, CD

If getting a new CD I'd get one that can handle MP3's because sometimes you get people who don't understand what they have

I would get a decent USB sound card to connect a laptop to. Often that will cure any hum/earth issuesIf you rely on mini jack out all sorts of ground loops can happen. Also run a fully charged laptop on battery for shows if it persists

[paulears]

Ask one question - what format do people give you to play, rather than what you create yourself?

 

Our dual rack mount CD player died, so we figured we could cope fine with MD (still in the rack), a MacBook with Qlab and other stuff on it, plus a rack mounted SD/USB stick player. The MacBook is a new one - with no useful connectors or a CD player, and then just a few days later we did a dance show, followed by a school show. BOTH handed over CDs, then when we frowned, USB sticks and SD cards, but with all kinds of formats - especially protected mp3s which play on their laptops at home/work, but won't on ours. Bought a new DJ type rack mount dual CD player. There's still lots of CDs out there. Still doesn't mean they'll all play with so many created own computers and not finalised!

[Hilary Watts]

We (a mainly volunteer-run theatre used by many community groups) have moved over from CD and minidisc to laptop with SCS. It's very flexible and easy to use. One or two individuals have bought their own copies of SCS which makes it easy to prepare shows at home and then copy them on to the theatre computer or alternatively bring their own laptop in. Others have learned how to use it simply by downloading the demo system and are then quite happy to use the version installed on the theatre laptop.

I agree that laptop noise can be a problem even with a good USB sound card. However I've had one of these for many years and it's never failed to solve the problem (other more sophisticated and expensive versions are available).

 

E2A I've just seen Paul's post and I should add that we still do have a working stand-alone CD player and minidisc plus a CD drawer on the laptop but if there's time now prefer to rip any audio CDs on to the computer and set up a cue list in SCS.

 

[Bryson]

I love the Denon DN-300Z for environments where the source is...shall we say...unpredictable.... It's way over budget though. https://denonpro.com/products/view/dn-300z

 

The DN-300C gets you most of the way there for only just over budget. (I'd miss the Bluetooth, but you might not.)

 

Various other options: https://denonpro.com/products/browse3/category/cd-players

 

Ah, just saw the recording requirement. So maybe not those. But for others, do look at the 300Z, it has saved my life on a number of occasions...

[sandall]

Laugh if you like but in the past 18 months I've gone back to minidisc.

Having gone from reel-to-reel, which was totally reliable, via minidisc, which is pretty reliable as long as you don't do anything silly, to laptop I try to avoid CDs because, as Kevin points out, the system just has too many shortcomings. They are great for cassette-replacement stuff, like interval music & long atmos backgrounds, but useless for very short spot cues. I also hate the waste involved (you mention tending to end up burning a lot of CDs).

 

If going into a venue which has a reasonable sound-system I will take 1 or 2 minidisc decks, but for simple shows in non-theatre spaces I am more likely to use Multiplay on an old XP laptop, feeding a couple of small powered speakers, though that's more in the interest of reducing car-space, as I will probably be carrying a load of lights & dimmer-packs as well. Multiplay is free, dead easy to use & allows you to overlap cues, saving the need for multiple players. I've had a play with SCS, but it does far more than I need.

 

A lot of (overseas) touring groups I meet seem to travel with a Numark or similar USB player (usually fitted with a Euro mains plug!).

 

If looking at MD the Sony 500-series are probably the most user friendly, as a lot of the other consumer decks have very limited displays, e.g. you can see the track title OR the timer, but not both. I guess that as a format MD was overtaken by the ubiquitous phone.The first decks I bought (Denon player-only & recorder-player) cost us just over £2k for the pair - a few years later they ended up in a skip, replaced by 4 consumer decks, in their turn superseded by a PC running SFX.

 

You don't say in your OP whether you are resident in your venue or guests in someone else's, in which case the size of your footprint in the auditorium might be an issue. Also, whether other companies will be using your setup.

 

Noisy headphone sockets used to be a problem with laptops, but in recent years I've had no audio problems with multiple laptops running into small analogue mixers. I use a USB or Cardbus interface for recording, but only bother with isolation if I have to use a DI for a laptop on stage.

[kgallen]

(Sorry for banging on about MD...)

 

If looking at MD the Sony 500-series are probably the most user friendly

I agree, although the MDS-JE510 (like the 300 range) doesn't have Auto Pause, so look at the 520 or 530. The 530 has pitch control too should you want it, plus better ATRAC CODECs should you care.

 

e.g. you can see the track title OR the timer, but not both.

Tell me about it, even the Tascam MD-350 which has a fairly large display can't do that. The Sony E10/E12, which has a smaller display, can as can the 520 and 530 consumer decks.

 

The nice thing about the Sony's above is you can get at all of the settings from the front panel menus without the remote. Again, Tascam's designers were asleep as I need a PS/2 keyboard for the MD-350 just to enable Auto Pause because it's not available via the front panel knobs... http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif

[mackerr]

Having a small UPS inline is always a good move whatever kit you're using! (Another topic we were discussing not so long ago on BR!).

 

Another advantage to the laptop solution, it comes with a built in UPS. ;-)

 

I use a laptop and an Instant Replay for playback on all shows. I ask for (and get) all audio files on a USB stick. The IR is a bit of a pain to load, but the best for tight cues.

 

Instant Replay

 

Mac

[Dave m]

Just remembered that because of a comment on here, I downloaded "go button"