Fog and haze machines and smoke detectors

[viktor92]

Hi everyone,

 

I am facing with problem during using fog and haze machine with smoke detectors in a theater. I am not sure is the reason fog or haze machine for triggering the fire alarm system.

 

I am using Hazebase Hazer Pro:

http://hazebase.com/product/basehazerpro/

 

The Composition of Hazer's liquid is: glycol and water

 

and Hazebase Base Classic with type of liquid Base S:

http://hazebase.com/product/baseclassic/

 

The smoke Alarm system is Simplex 4100ES and the smoke detectors are MZX device.

https://simplex-fire.com/en/us/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?productdetail=Simplex+4100ES+Fire+Alarm+Control+Panel

https://simplex-fire.com/en/us/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?productdetail=MZX+Devices

 

After my research, I found that the typical smoke machine produce particles with size of 1 micron. Also I found that Phantom Hazers produce much smaller particles with size of 0.2 microns.

I want to ask what for your opinion, what brand and type of liquid for fog and haze machines you used already and advise.

 

Many thanks to everyone!

 

 

 

[Jivemaster]

Fog and haze machines may well trip alarm detectors, The only two courses of action are to test fire the machine when an alarm can be tolerated to check whether the detectors will accept your type of smoke, OR to have a discussion with the venue management about whether the smoke detectors can be switched out of circuit in your room and all neighbouring rooms for the duration of the show.

[Nicktaylor]

Totally agree with the answer above. Unfortunately there are some venues and/ or councils who do not deviate from having their alarms switched on and therefore you might not be able to use smoke or haze machines.

[bigclive]

Any fog or haze can be detected by a smoke detector when it reaches a high enough density. In the case of ionisation detectors it blocks the ionisation path and in the case of optical detectors it simply sees it.

 

The only sensible options are rate of rise heat detectors that use a thermistor to monitor for a sudden increase in heat in a room or a bypass system that allows the smoke detectors to be bypassed during an event using haze. Of those two the best is the rate of rise detectors. But unfortunately the people who specify these systems have no true understanding of the theatre effects involved.

[Dave m]

You can have the sensors switched by the engineer (depends on what you have) so that they operate with smoke detection at night, but are programmed to ignore smoke either between certain times or possibly by running a different user option. But if you do use smoke the fire authority might insist on more crew so you have a designated fireman who only looks for problems due to the sensors being off.

[Jivemaster]

If it's a professional theatre type venue then they may have haze friendly alarms, if it's a hotel or conference suite then assume that whatever you have been told is wrong and the charming Fillipino Maitre d' will have no idea of the alarm system, so it's a no smoke or haze venue.

 

You actually have no idea what alarms and sensors the venue has in the event room and all the other rooms, probably the Maitre d' has no idea either. Is it really worth an hour wait on the pavement while the alarms go and the fire service attend .....

[bigclive]

Also keep in mind that even if you have the auditorium zone put on temporary bypass, the haze may find its way into adjacent rooms or ventilation duct sensors.

 

A compromise may be to enforce a very strict level of haze on the borderline that light beams become visible without causing adverse alarm effects. But that's harder than it sounds due to potential air movement variation.