24 AB Desk

[BenEdwards]

Looking for a lighting desk for a multi-use venue. Thinking of a SHOWMASTER 48. We have 24 channels of incondesent. It's under £300, going much over this is going to be a stretch. We need to keep it simple as there are lots fo casual users. This seems to the only option but open for suggestions. Also be good to here about peoples experience of this desk.

 

We do also have 6 LED PAR lights so if there was a cheapish way to control these also that would be good but what we are doing at the moment is looking at using a computer system for these for more advanced users but the main desk needs to be a traditional one.

 

The venue is totally run by volunteers and we currently use a ZERO 88 Alcora 12/24 in wide. The politics is very tricky and although a computer system seems the way to go it's just not going to happen for main desk.

[Brian]

Can you not get something s/hand?

 

I'd take a Zero88 Level 24 (on eBay now for £72) over a new piece of China anyday. Infinitely fixable for when the inevitable happens. Spares widely available. Knowledge to fix it widely available. Heck, if you speak nicely to Z88 they'll probably even email you a service manual.

 

There's also an ETC Smartfade 24/96 on eBay for £300.

[musht]

For LED Pars , only 4 group, but looks user friendly

 

https://prolight.co.uk/product/easiled-4-DMX-controller

[BenEdwards]

Can you not get something s/hand?

 

I'd take a Zero88 Level 24 (on eBay now for £72) over a new piece of China anyway. Infinitely fixable for when the inevitable happens. Spares widely available. Knowledge to fix it widely available. Heck, if you speak nicely to Z88 they'll probably even email you a service manual.

 

There's also an ETC Smartfade 24/96 on eBay for £300.

 

Verry wary about getting a verry old used kit. We got a Sirius 48, got someone in to look at it and never got it working properly so had to ditch it. also, the ones on eBay are analogue, we are DMX.

 

The ETC Smartfade 24/96 looks promising. Cant quite work out if you can connect a screen/define colour palets but for the incondesents looks like a real goer.

 

Ben

[sunray]

I got a Cobra which is basically the same as the showmaster 48 on ebay for £55 this year and the only problem that I have come across so far is the numbers are missing where the masking/cam tape has repeatedly pulled the paint off.

 

edit: Oh and no manual which I downloaded.

[alistermorton]

So as a real user, how does the desk shape up for theatre use?

[Jivemaster]

http://www.terralec.co.uk/dmx_lighting_controllers/cobra_colour_control_12_dmx_controller/32486_p.html

 

http://www.terralec.co.uk/dmx_lighting_controllers/dmx_controller_48_channels/32488_p.html

 

I can fully understand wanting a "fader per channel" desk for casual users without an LX op.

[sunray]

<a href='http://www.terralec.co.uk/dmx_lighting_controllers/dmx_controller_48_channels/32488_p.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.terralec....ls/32488_p.htmlI can fully understand wanting a &quot;fader per channel&quot; desk for casual users without an LX op.

Sorry I'm unable to make the quote work properly with the external link.

Yes that's the desk I got s/h from Ebay and a case: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Showtec-6U-Lighting-Desk-Rack-Flight-Case/122644350780?epid=1672425463&hash=item1c8e2c473c:g:LWoAAOSweM1aKr5K

 

So as a real user, how does  the desk shape up for theatre use?

I have recently become involved with a local AmDram group, they have a mixture of LED and incandescent to a total of 20 channels (about 7.5KW) permanently installed,plus I add a few extra bits. their desk is 'set-up' and they don't like it being altered so I purchased a s/h Chauvet stage designer 50, which is a 48 channel desk with 24 faders and page A/page B. In manual mode it is almost impossible to use more than 24 channels so I got the Cobra with the full 48 faders, at the last show I was using 41 channels. My previous lighting experience at school in 1970ish was Strand Junior 8 based (assisting with some tiny DMX based bits since) so a big leap forward. At this 'small system' level it works well but I'm close to running out of capacity. The real limiting factor is power supply, the local hall has a 100A single phase supply with electric water heaters, hand driers etc and the lighting power currently consists of 3x 13A sockets (on 16A radials).

 

I have had a quick play with a pc based system at a different venue but didn't have anything like enough time to learn what I was doing

[alistermorton]

Were you busking the show, manually scene cross fading, or was it programmed as a cue stack?

[Tomo]

The ETC Smartfade 24/96 looks promising. Cant quite work out if you can connect a screen/define colour palets but for the incondesents looks like a real goer.

The ETC SmartFade family don't support external monitors, but you can connect a Windows PC over USB to use as a screen and editor.

(They used to support Mac as well, but Apple broke that along with half the other USB devices in the world with El Capitan)

 

The SmartFade 24/96 is the largest "dimmers-only" version of this console, so no palettes.

- 48 faders (channels or submasters), 96 dimmers.

 

The SmartFade ML is the "LED and moving lights" version and has focus, colour and beam palettes, effects engine etc.

 

Both are no longer manufactured, but ETC support everything until it's no longer physically possible (and sometimes beyond that...)

[sunray]

Were you busking the show, manually scene cross fading, or was it programmed as a cue stack?

First show was with their 12/24 desk in 24 ch manual mode, second was my cobra in 24 ch manual mode, 3rd my cobra in 48ch manual mode. By that time I realised I had to learn how to program it and for the last show learnt and programmed 9 stacks with a total of about 40 steps on my kitchen table, I'm quite proud of the fact I made only one error in the programming which was starting a LED par one channel too early, luckily I only used it for green and blue and I was able to reset the address so red clashed with flash of the previous LED par (neither of which were used). One thing missing is no counter on the cue stack so it's easy to lose your place, I believe the Chavvy does have this and make a GUESS the showmaster will. Other than that I've been delighted with my s/h bargain, I paid more for the flightcase than the desk :).

[alistermorton]

Were you able to control cross scene fades or did it snap? All the cheap desks I've scene seem to lack cross fades.

[sunray]

In A/B manual mode there are A & B master faders. Scenes have individual faders and can be set to single or multiple, so can be used the same as A&B masters Scene fade time can be recorded and additionally set during playback. To be honest I haven't been able to 'play' on a live set yet but I think 'extra' steps can be added to create the illusion of a proper crossfade.

 

In A/B manual mode there are A & B master faders. Scenes have individual faders and can be set to single or multiple, so can be used the same as A&B masters Scene fade time can be recorded. Additionally fade time can be set during playback and manual. To be honest I haven't been able to 'play' on a live set yet but I think it fades up and down simultaneously between steps. If not, I think 'extra' steps could be added to create the illusion.

[alistermorton]

Thanks.

[sunray]

Sorry about the double post yesterday, I had a computer freeze and didn't think the first version had been saved.