nickb12345 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Bit of a 'what would you do' question for you all really... Got some kit on a ed fringe show which is all happily insured but overnight the venue appear to have left the door unlocked so someone took the opportunity and acquired our projector, some guitar pedals and a few other bits belonging to the venue. First up we have sorted a replacement projector for the rest of the run so the show can go on but now we turn to the paperwork part... Everything was covered by insurance but the problem we have is that because the venue left the door unlocked there was no forced entry and therefore looks like no payout. The venue operator are dragging their heals a bit and have said they will investigate but won't be paying out. I'm assuming we are going to have to write this off as a loss but just wondering if there are any other avenues we should explore? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 If venue left the door open then have they breached their contract with promoter (or whoever hired you). There is a strong moral (if not a legal) case that if they left the door open, they should carry the cost. You claim on your insurance, and your insurer can persue (or not) the venue and their insurer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 If venue left the door open then have they breached their contract with promoter... Maybe not. Depends on what the hire agreement says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickb12345 Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 The agreement between the venue and act (my brother-in-law in this case) pretty much says 'your kit = your responsibility' which usually I would accept but the fact the left the door open is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Would "left the door open" be carelessness or complicity? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B003XDN58K/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=newGPS trackers from £6.31 from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Would "left the door open" be carelessness or complicity? Maybe, but the OPs only course of action is going to be a civil claim in the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmxlights Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Never mide if the door was left unlock. There is a question that could be the key to this. If the venu has alarm and then why was it not set and also why did it not go off when someone enter the building. Also think of it this way " the ones who took the items must have know where they where or the layout of the building to know where things are". so cctv camera footage will need to be looked at if the venu has it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickb12345 Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 Nope no alarm or CCTV. It actually sounds like they intruder might have been let in through a manned staff entrance now, which is even more worrying. Also turns out this isn't the only venue run by this operator to have been hit on the same day... Interesting. If it was me who stood to be out of pocket I would argue all the way and quite up for a little court battle. I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that the venue would either lock the doors overnight or actually check credentials of people using their staff entrances. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jevans Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The problem we have is normally company members not staff. Staff are generally wearing their pass and uniform (and are generally recognisable anyway), but there's thousands of company members, many of which are very bad about wearing their passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 ...a little court battle... Got £5k to spare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvy Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Nick, Sorry to hear of your loss. Firstly, if your Insurance Policy cover is restricted to forced entry theft only in this situation, then you need to move to more "professional" cover from one of the Specialist firms where there would be no such restrictions on own/hired out kit at a venue. Premiums may be a touch higher, but you get what you pay for........ In our industry, it is quite often the case that in temporary venue situations, security is down to others, therefore completely outside our control. You need protection from that risk. That's actually a recommendation to everyone. Check your cover!!! Not all "All Risk"policies are equal! Secondly, aside from contractual liabilities, it sounds as though you may well have a case of "Negligence" in common law against those responsible for securing the premises ( Venue Operator), though as said above, it might cost a bit. However, Small Claims Court doesn't have to be that expensive, but it will involve a lot of time and patience. Having said that, the situation in Scotland might be slightly different.... anyone? There is nothing to stop you writing to the Operator, holding them responsible and asking them to refer you to their Public Liability Insurers. If you get stone walled then it's a matter of economics. You should secure signed statements from as many witnesses as you can from early course, in case people disappear or memories fade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Small Claims in the Scottish courts is for claims of up to £3000, it costs £78 to lodge the claim. No need for legal representation if you don’t want it - but if you’re not local, then the costs of attending will mount up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Small Claims in the Scottish courts is for claims of up to £3000, But I don't think you can make a claim for negligence. There are three types of claim which can be raised under the small claims procedure.These are:• A claim for payment of money• A claim for delivery or recovery of moveable property• A claim for implement of an obligation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickb12345 Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hi All Just to let you know we had a nice call from Edinburgh police this morning and the projector, along with other equipment taken, has been found and returned to us. Makes life easier :) Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmxlights Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 That's sure nice to hear. I bet you could not believe it when you got the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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