West Side Story - Stage colour

[alanhj]

I belong to an Amateur group who will shortly stage West Side Story and there is currently an ongoing dispute regarding the colour of the stage for this production. The Designer wants a light grey, sort of concrete colour, painted stage but the lighting designer wants it dark grey preferably black because according to him, the grey would reflect the colour from the rig whereas the very dark grey or black would not reflect the light and, therefore, would look better. I would be interested in your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks

[paulears]

This is what sometimes makes me despair a bit. You have a set designer and a lighting designer, both no doubt skilled and experienced in their craft, but other people get involved. The impact of the lights on the set, and the problem of the set on the lighting just need resolving by the two designers. In the real world, they'd knock up a model box and try the two colours and see which worked best, eventually coming to agreement. If they really cannot agree, then the director or producer will intervene. Costume also comes into it.

 

I don't think anyone can have an opinion who has not seen the set, and the space, and the lighting kit available.

 

You said "according to him.." as if you don't agree with the LD's thoughts. what is the point in having a lighting designer if you don't trust him to do the job?

 

What is your role in the production?

[kerry davies]

The designers would normally take directions from ... errm ... the director?

As Paul writes the director/producer would know the overall "feel" of what they want to portray and the designers must deliver that. It is a cooperative creative team but organised by one mind, one voice.

 

My personal opinion is that they are both off their heads since the film relied on brickwork for much of the backdrop.

[paulears]

I did see one once where there were weird stylised, warped flats of skyscrapers, painted with vivid colours that changed with the colour of the lighting used to light it up, and another where the entire 'scenery' was gobo projections from lots of sources that sort of joined and were kind of symbolic of a 'place' - all the people lighting was very much area based, in steel blue. I found it depressing and just odd. The big dance numbers just got lost. That's the trouble with WSS - it's been overdone, and the music carries the weaker productions, or in these tow examples, clever ones. Personally - I prefer a busy, real set, and colourful costumes and lighting. Dark or happy, day/night, sad or cheerful.

[alanhj]

Hi Paul,

You ask what is my role? I'm the Production Manager and the problem has nothing to do with a model box. It is a lighting problem. Let me try to explain. Last month as part of the NT Connections we staged a play called "Remote" which was set in a skate park. For this production we had a professional scenic designer and a professional lighting designer. The stage floor was painted light grey and the pro. LD had no problem with this. Our Am. SD saw this and liked the colour. Our Am LD also worked on the production and made no adverse comments re the colour of the stage floor. This summer we will have two productiions both running like a rep during the season, "West Side Story" and "Oliver". Our SD is of the opinion that the "Remote" grey is fine for both Shows. Our LD totally disagrees. Yes the Director has the final say but we have a problem. It's a "Solomon" type of problem! If the Director sides with the SD the LD will walk out and viceversa.

So I had the idea of seeing what you guys thought would be best, grey, dark grey or black for the stage floor considering it will remain whichever colour for both Shows. I was then going to sit the whole team down at a production meeting and say "According to expert opinion blah blah blah" in the hope that it would resolve the issue!

[sandall]

My personal opinion is that they are both off their heads since the film relied on brickwork for much of the backdrop.

I'm with Kerry, but I appreciate that doesn't solve your problem. In the end the director is going to have to decide, hopefully massaging both egos enough to keep all the toys in the prams.

[ImagineerTom]

If a group of people who know each-other socially and have chosen to work together on this project cannot discuss and resolve this issue themselves then you charging in with "some anonymous bloke on the internet says" type comments isn't going to do anything to help.

 

As a production manager it's your job to manage and facilitate, not to wade in to the battle. Why not suggest a test - paint a piece of wood half in light grey, half in dark grey (of the tones they're wanting to use, obviously) and then putting it on the actual stage with some of the actual lights they want to use. The three of them can then see for certain how the colours behave and if the Designer and LD cannot come to some agreement then the director needs to make an artistic choice. If after that either of them isn't happy and quits the production then you've not lost anything because a) you've got a colour you know works and b) creating shows is a collaborative process and the person that's quit was clearly never going to collaborate.

[alistermorton]

This sort of thing should get decided when the lighting, sound, set , props, decor teams etc and director meet together well before the show goes up and is still in planning and preparation, and although the director will listen to suggestions it's ultimately their decision.

 

I had just such a "problem" on the show I'm currently lighting, where the set designer had omitted a window which I had been intending to light through showing the passage of time through the evening. We discussed it with the director, and came to the decision that it was likely to look better and add depth. The director went with the window, which the SD wasn't entirely happy with but acquiesced nonetheless, and the set builders and painters were informed of the changes to the model and drawings there and then.

[andy_s]

so the problem is not really to do with the colour of the floor, but perhaps more to do with the egos of the participants? You have my sympathy...

 

as you have seen, pale coloured floors can be very effective, although I can understand the LDs concern that a level of light that avoids glare and flare from the floor is not sufficient to light the performers.

 

How much of the set changes between the two productions? would it be possible to have the paler gray for WSS and cover with a floorcloth painted in a way that is more suitable for grimey London for "Oliver"? (whatever "suitable" may mean in this context). More money of course....

 

Is the proposed paint finish a "flat" finish, or will it be broken down / spattered / dry-brushed to create an illusion of texture? this is where set and lighting designers can collaborate to great effect. I worked on a show once which started off with a bright yellow set (floor and walls) which after much discussion and several paint-calls became a broken down, textured surface (but still yellow) that the lighting designer (Francis Reid) could make look really beautiful. He was meticulous about his focus, making sure he could control exactly where the light went, and was very precise in his plotting sessions, refining the levels of each lantern to get the balance between performer and scenery right. A lot of painstaking work, but the results were worth it.

 

How feasible is it to adapt the lighting between productions? for example even if the rig and focus stays the same, changing the colour in the overhead units will have a profound effect on the floor colour. Is there a way of lighting performers without lighting the floor? (for example positions for ballet-style sidelights focussed so they don't hit the floor?)

 

Sounds to me as if both "creatives" may need to be a bit more imaginative and flexible, and somehow your job would be to persuade / encourage them in this.

 

I can't help wondering whether saying "you can't do this because the experts on the blue room suggest you can't" is more likely to be a red rag than oil on water, but if all else fails, KHT* comes in to play - but this is probably the director's task, not the PM's.

 

*"Knocking Heads Together".

[T*ny]

Rather than go for a flat colour, spatter the floor using both shades of grey. Nice textured finish, no scuff marks ruining the finish 5 minutes into the tech and both interested parties sort of get their way.

[themadhippy]

Grey or black floor?

 

 

http://www.replify.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/fight1.jpg

[paulears]

I feel for you - but I suspect you have a battle about to take place. If they don't get on, then nothing is likely to produce a working compromise.

[the kid]

Rather than go for a flat colour, spatter the floor using both shades of grey. Nice textured finish, no scuff marks ruining the finish 5 minutes into the tech and both interested parties sort of get their way.

 

 

nice little street paving slab style lines on it as well. Almost as if it was a real street. Except when inside, lay a bit of carpet on that side of the stage ¬_¬

[Just Some Bloke]

I'm with T*ny. Paint the floor light grey then spatter it dark grey or vice versa.

 

At the end of the day, a professional LD would be required to light the floor whatever shade it was. Recently I lit a dance show with a white floor, and that was my choice so I could colour it any colour with my LED colour-mixing backlights, then the dancers were lit with side light that avoided hitting the floor as much as possible. It looked great. A few years ago I lit some operas with a light grey floor spattered with various other tones (the set designer's choice) and that time I used side light pars with scrollers to change the colour of the floor with warm and cold washes from in front which worked well. The spattering tones down the bounce. At a recent ALD meeting someone told of an LD lighting a pool of water beautifully despite the obvious worries of reflections going everywhere when the water moved around slightly (I believe birdies were involved on that occasion).

 

The basic rule is that if your floor is too bright for the face lighting, then you need to use an angle of light for the faces which avoids the floor - side light being the most normal but footlight works too. Hope that helps.

[alanhj]

Thanks for all your comments. I've made a compromise. Both the SD and LD now agree with the spatter effect!!

I just knew it was worth posing the problem on here. Long may it stay. Thanks again.

Alan