DI Boxes

[win101]

I'm sure this is a really obvious question but I don't know the answer! How long can you run a jack cable from an electric guitar to a mixer before you need to use a DI box. Also do you know anywhere that I can rent DI Boxes from relatively cheaply. I have a charity concert coming up and need to either plug the 3 guitars directly into my mixer with jack or via a DI Box.

 

Thanks

[nickb12345]

Hi

 

Im afraid I cant help with either of your questions but I could suggest that if the bands ae using their own amps you could close mic them! Would save the need for long runs of Un-Balanced cable and hire charge for a DI box!

 

I suppose the answer to the question about running straight into the desk would depend on the environment its used in. With lots of lighting and mains cable you are more likley to pick up 'buzz' on the feed than without. I personally wouldnt trust it over any great length!

 

 

Nick

[paulears]

With a passive 6 string with single coil pickups using Canford HST (ignoring one core) I managed only 6m before the top end started to sound duller. The 10m one I made up really sounded muddy. I had a 7.5 version and chopped off bits until I got to 6m. It was just ok. On a humbucking pickup, the 6m one didn't sound any different to the short ones I normally use. With active circuitry, output impedance is lower and the capacitance of the cable doesn't have such a drastic effect.

 

DI box hire isn't normally worth it unless the hire company are on your doorstep due to the carriage costs - probably more than the hire! CPC, among others, sell them quite cheap in passive versions.

[Rich]

Hi there

 

If you intend to buy DI boxes, Studiospares sell a fantastic model for next to nothing, which they say is re-badged by another company and sold for three times the amount (it's not hard to tell who).

 

I have two of them and couldn't be more satisfied for live and studio use.

 

Click here for a look

 

Good luck. Rich

[Mr.Si]

Hi there

 

If you intend to buy DI boxes, Studiospares sell a fantastic model for next to nothing, which they say is re-badged by another company and sold for three times the amount (it's not hard to tell who).

 

That looks like a BSS AR133 to me, but BLACK not bluish.

 

 

If they're acoustic gtrs, then I'd not use anything other than a DI box, unless they have a little "Trace Acoustic" amplifier with a DI out. Then I'd use the Pre-EQ DI output from there.

 

if they're electric gtrs, then they'll likely have their own amp so then I'd mic that up.

 

Si

[Rich]

That looks like a BSS AR133 to me, but BLACK not bluish.

 

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what I was implying!

[david.elsbury]

Yep, that is a re-badged BSS AR-133. Lovely DI's. The giveaway is the female XLR on the input side.

[ben.suffolk]

Yep, that is a re-badged BSS AR-133. Lovely DI's. The giveaway is the female XLR on the input side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I needed a couple of new DI boxes, so I just bought a couple of these studio spares ones. And they do indeed look like a nice little unit. Won't need to use the till the weekend so can't comment on the noise quality yet.

 

However I'm not sure they are re-badged AR-133. What makes me say this is that they only have 0, 20db attenuation, the AR-133 has 0, 20 & 40db. For the sake of research :blink: I had a quick look inside and the PCB has no missing bits, and it's marked up by the attenuation switch as 0 & 20, no sign of 40 or space for the extra pins needed for a 3 way switch.

 

Not that I need 40db attenuation anyway, so it doe snot really matter, but I guess just because something looks similar does not mean it is, not to say its not based on the same design though.

 

Ben

[Jivemaster]

Electric guitar pickups are very high impedance so top end suffers into a long cable. Try to limit yourself to 5 metres or less.

An elec bass can be DIed directly the other axes need the tonal input of the muso?s pedals and combo so it's easier to mic them all.

Pick-ups prefer the values associated with valve amps such as an input impedance in the order of 500K to 10Meg.

[SceneMaster]

Hi,

 

I have a school leaver’s gig coming up and I am the sound op plus lampie... as usual. Several bands are playing and ideally I would like to be able to control all the instrument levels from the sound desk. This I take it requires a DI box as this reduces all the hum ect... and puts the independence to the right levels ect.

 

What I am wondering is this worth me doing? Our PA comprises as two 300watt cabs and a monitor. Obviously the band are going to want decent monitoring so I was going to add to this by using two of the bigger guitar amps (both the same model ect) as monitors as well, these normally are used as the guitar amps. I have made the wise decision though if I was to do this not to put the bass into the system as the pa systems bass cones aren’t the best and we would probably blow them so I though it would be better to keep the bass on a bass guitar amp.

 

I presume with a DI system you just plug the guitar into the DI box (powered by phantom power although you can get ones requiring power?) then the box into the PA system in this case by a multi-core (I presume this will be ok?). I will need to buy the DI boxes and I am looking at cheap and cheerful but not tacky. The studiospares ones look good can anyone suggest any others...?

 

I know this post probably is a bit basic, but I am really a lampie at heart although I would consider myself fairly competent at sound just all the sound I have done in the past has been mic FOH work.

 

Thanks for any help,

[paulears]

keys and bass work fine di'd - so would the guitars to be honest, but you'd lose all the processsing of the sound the amp does. So if they like cranking the gains up full, bashing in the overdrive etc, then they won't be happy. If, on the other hand they have all the effects outboard, and are using the amp clean - then no snags. Trouble is, in my experience, the guitarists hate being di'd. Not much chance of waving the guitar in front of the monitor to generate controlled feedback, if other stuff is in there too.

[SceneMaster]

keys and bass work fine di'd - so would the guitars to be honest, but you'd lose all the processsing of the sound the amp does. So if they like cranking the gains up full, bashing in the overdrive etc, then they won't be happy. If, on the other hand they have all the effects outboard, and are using the amp clean - then no snags. Trouble is, in my experience, the guitarists hate being di'd. Not much chance of waving the guitar in front of the monitor to generate controlled feedback, if other stuff is in there too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the guitar amps when used at school are just providing clean amp (ok they play with the EQ but this can be done on the desk) and with regards to the gain up full this can also be done with the desk but I usually set the gain on the amps and it is never up full. Overdrive is never used on the school amps. Any effects are usually done by effects pedals. So I presume I just take my input from the effects pedals rather than straight from the guitar and I won’t loose the effects coming through the DI will I? what I was planning to do was put the Di boxes under the stage with the multi-core and provide 4 jack inputs on stage (labelled) and tell people to plug into those whether it be a guitar or an effects pedal.

 

On the subject of monitoring will the big guitar amps work ok for this…? They have been used for speakers for mics ect… in the past and are good quality and would only be giving the monitoring for the guitars. And people don’t tend to do feedback effects as I usually kill them afterwards :P…

[paulears]

The guitar amps work from a technical standpoint, sort of like a powered monitor. Trouble is the 'tone' is pretty naff. Guitar amps are tailored for guitars. If you plug a bass into a guitar amp it sounds thin and weedy, if you plug a 6 string into a bass amp they're dull and muffled. So not really a good all round neutral sound.

 

The only snag I really see is that you are going to need a lot of monitor mixes - each one with a different mix and eq. If your desk can do it, then all should be well, but in the imortal words of Deep Purple to their engineer, can we have everything louder than everything else?

 

As a musician, I would want my own amp, with my own sound, worked by my own ears - rather than trust someone else who may not realise I'm too loud, quiet, toppy, bottomy, or just mixed in with someone I don't need to hear.

[SceneMaster]

The guitar amps work from a technical standpoint, sort of like a powered monitor. Trouble is the 'tone' is pretty naff. Guitar amps are tailored for guitars. If you plug a bass into a guitar amp it sounds thin and weedy, if you plug a 6 string into a bass amp they're dull and muffled. So not really a good all round neutral sound.

 

The only snag I really see is that you are going to need a lot of monitor mixes - each one with a different mix and eq. If your desk can do it, then all should be well, but in the imortal words of Deep Purple to their engineer, can we have everything louder than everything else?

 

As a musician, I would want my own amp, with my own sound, worked by my own ears - rather than trust someone else who may not realise I'm too loud, quiet, toppy, bottomy, or just mixed in with someone I don't need to hear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cool, fair enough… well I would only be putting the guitar mix out of the amps probably using the Aux send on our desk as it is an old 8ch studiomaster powerhouse (well I think it is) and used the monitor send for vocals as normal. The mix should be ok on the guitar amps as it is guitar sound being mixed to it only. You are right though the guitarists will be getting the mix of all three of them coming out of two guitar amps as there monitors and they would probably want there own monitor with just them mixed onto it each as well as the whole lot going out the PA.

 

I think considering I would have to buy the DI boxes it is probably not worth the hassle. I will just do my usual run to the stage and adjust the levels on the amps between each act stunt. The bands do not have a clue what a balanced mix is the only balanced mix they know is everything on full. Well during the acts if it is wrong it is wrong and I won’t have to worry about it once I have set the levels properly if they change them it is there problem it would have just been nice to have a bit of control from the desk, well at least I will have more time to concentrate on my lighting as two vocal mics and a radio mic are hardly taxing!!!

 

Thanks for you advice anyway…

[SceneMaster]

Actually I have just thought, this may be a stupid idea but the amps have a line out on them. Meaning they can be used for the guitarists amps then this line out can be put into the sound desk (without a DI box)? Then this allows me to mix the sound out the PA giving the extra power needed?

 

It is only an idea and would the line out of the amp retain all the EQs of the amp as if it didn’t then it would be possible for me to mix to different EQs which could give and interesting effect.

 

Just an idea,