DI Boxes

[paulears]

Solstace is talking perfect sense. Scenemaster - your job as mixer is to make whatever sound the band produce louder, and as good as you can. It isn't your job to tell them how loud they can be - I'll admit, it's good idea, that in your circumstances with poor kit, poor musicianship and pretty well poor everything, may well actually work - but musicians needs to interelate - they actually need things under their control. You, at the back, have no idea what it sounds like on stage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can't agree. It is your job to make what the punters hear sound right. The nub of the problem here is that the band have no idea what the audience are hearing. As far as the paying audience are concerned it doesn't matter a stff what it sounds like on stage.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think I didn't explain this well - At the mix position, I entirely agree that it's your job to make sure the audience get the best sound - my point, is that if what you are hearing, through the totally DI'd sound back through the monitors, is balanced pooly, the musicians simply can't play. The band don't really need to hear the audience mix, but they must hear their own. Speaking for myself as a player, rather than when I mix - I can't play through a small monitor, the bottom B is far too low to work through a general purpose monitor - especially if the mon also has other band members in it.

 

If - what is being said is that it's ok to DI guitars because they are duff musicians and have no playing discipline, then fine - it's going to souynd s*it anyway. BUT - if they can play, then DI is not going to work, expect loads of grief from the muso's.

 

 

As it happens, Metallica have their guitar amps in the dock, inside a flightcase and rely on the monitors. The important thing is that they need to get rid of the volume, but need the 'sound'. In a small scale gig, having this amount of control is a dream.

 

Best that can happen is that the band have small amps, so even if turned up, they are still controllable. If they are running more than 100W each - it's going to be a mess - whatever you do, if they really are grim.

[SceneMaster]

I vote D - set the amps up set a mic - SM57 or similar in front of the anmp and feed that through the mixer - this gives you some control over the amp sound.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm... yes ideally I would have no problems and this would be an ideal solution but if you read my post I have no mics spare (only three being used for vocals). I maybe able to cut one of the vocal mics and use this but probably not and it would be for one map only.

 

Firing the amps sideways, or even backwards will reduce the amp spill into FOH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Already suggested but good idea, this is what I usually do.

 

Right so DIing won’t work... so I think I am just going to try and do the best I can with just amps or buy some more mics with my own money which isn't really my responsibility even if sometime in the future I am going to start building my own PA system up... my lighting rig is fair more important to me at the moment.

[djw1981]

The last time I was hiring mics, an SM57 for a day was only £5.

 

I vote D - set the amps up set a mic - SM57 or similar in front of the anmp and feed that through the mixer - this gives you some control over the amp sound.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm... yes ideally I would have no problems and this would be an ideal solution but if you read my post I have no mics spare (only three being used for vocals). I maybe able to cut one of the vocal mics and use this but probably not and it would be for one map only.

 

Firing the amps sideways, or even backwards will reduce the amp spill into FOH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Already suggested but good idea, this is what I usually do.

 

Right so DIing won’t work... so I think I am just going to try and do the best I can with just amps or buy some more mics with my own money which isn't really my responsibility even if sometime in the future I am going to start building my own PA system up... my lighting rig is fair more important to me at the moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[SceneMaster]

The last time I was hiring mics, an SM57 for a day was only £5.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right that may be so but then you the cost of someone going to collect it which to my nearest hire company that school are willing to use costs about £12 in petrol each way. There is not hire budget and I don't feel that I really should pay for any hire out of my own pocket. I am leaving the school and I have certainly given enough time and money (in the form of buying equipment then using it on their shows). They have blown more than one of my P56s lamps without paying for them! I think though if I have the money I might just buy some general purpose mics for myself. Where is the best deal on a SM57?

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[audio]

I would suggest getting a SM58 if you're going to get a general microphone, a '57 is a little more specialised and needs treating better because it has a little twisty thing on the top, whereas a '58 will take beer dunkings and falls in its stride ;-)

 

Best deal I have seen for a '58 is £36 on e-bay, but I think new they are about £60 cheapest.....

 

If you have enough channels in the rig, I'd put your DI before the guitar amps, and take a spur/link out to the amps. Accepted it wont sound perfect, but as most of the sound will be coming from the amps, the DI feed is only needed to balance the guitars with vocals. If there is any possibility of getting some '57s then mic up the 'cabs every time.

Maybe you can't DI all the guitars? Then make sure you DI the lead guitar so you can increase the level for any guitar solos :-)

 

My 2p, hope whatever you do works well

[bemi]

I'd use the following:

 

Acoustic Guitar:

a) DI-Box

b) Condenser-Mic

c) combination of a and b

 

 

E-Guitar (with 'FX' like Overdrive ...)

-> mic the amp (the amp is at least 50% of the sound!!!)

 

 

E-Guitar (just Rhythm, i.e. accompaniment for choir etc.)

-> DIed directly or DIed after GuitarFX(-Board)

 

 

ciao

bemi

[SceneMaster]

Ok, so now I am just confused… several people have said do not DI you need a guitar amp ect… if you want to add volume mic the amps. This makes the most sense but I cannot do this. So I was just going to leave it and not bother and just use the guitar amps now people are saying use guitar amps an DI them which is what I was originally going to do… DIing an electric guitar apparently according to some sounds rubbish even if you still are using an amp and they have justified this view but how come the above two posts seem to suggest that DIing along with using an amp (so you take the thru of the DI to the amp and the output to the desk) will work although using a mic is the better option.

 

Guys even if it is not the professional thing to do. I am going to use the guitar amps regardless but need to know it I can take it out the PA. I am not too worried that this isn’t the standard practice in Wembley area I just need to know if it works.

 

Thanks,

[paulears]

scenemaster - you're getting a bit confused now, no wonder.

 

IF you have good musicians who understand, balance, blend and quality = MIC

IF you have poor musicians who understand volume = DI

 

pretty well as simple as that.

[Russ]

Might I add:

 

If you have enough kit = both.

[mac.calder]

And if you are really stretched budget wise during sound check set the amps up so that they do not need boosting, then employ someone with a flyswat to stand behind the amps, swatting the guitarists each time they try to crank it up that little bit extra.

 

Or...fire the band and play something tastefull to the audience whilst your LX guy ammuses the punters with pretty lights

[SceneMaster]

Well ideally both would be great but I think what I will do is buy some of the Behringer D120 and DI the guitars as well as using the amps. I have one spare mic so I will experiment and see if I can use it to generally pic up the guitar amps (they are very close to each other) although there will be a drum kit on stage so I am not expecting this to work.

 

Or...fire the band and play something tastefull to the audience whilst your LX guy ammuses the punters with pretty lights

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am the LX as well :P but there are only a few pars so nothing amazing will be available for this gig… if I can't get the funding for a £5 mic hire then I don’t think there will be any cash available to hire in the usual mini macs and 250s <_<

[SceneMaster]

Quick question… BEHRINGER DI-120 any good? If I want to put the guitar input into it then take the thru to the guitar amp how do I do this as there is no thru connection on this DI box. Can anyone suggest a similar model for the same price with a thru and two channels. Thanks.

 

Edit: Or around the same price £20 to £30

[paulears]

The behringer is a single channel, when you have one in, plenty of outs, or a 2 channel 2 in, 2 out. So if you are using it in two channel mode, you don't have a jack out to the amp, just the XLR to the desk. In single channel mode, the ch2 jack functions as the link out.

 

They are ok - not super sonic quality, but good value

[ojc123]

I think you may now see why I DI them. Not the best option for sound but easy, contollable and efficient use of resources. Paulears had it spot on.

 

"IF you have good musicians who understand, balance, blend and quality = MIC

IF you have poor musicians who understand volume = DI

 

pretty well as simple as that."

[SceneMaster]

The behringer is a single channel, when you have one in, plenty of outs, or a 2 channel 2 in, 2 out. So if you are using it in two channel mode, you don't have a jack out to the amp, just the XLR to the desk. In single channel mode, the ch2 jack functions as the link out.

 

They are ok - not super sonic quality, but good value

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well hopefully I will be able to use the line out on from the amps used in a 2ch mode so I shouldn’t have a problem, but if the line out doesn’t work then could I hypothetically make a jack split lead. As in have a jack with two jack sockets (jills) wired to it. Then either plug this into the amp’s input and take a lead to the guitar and a lead to the DI or plug it into the DI and have a lead to feed the amp from one of the sockets and a lead to feed the guitar from the other? This should work… yes not very neat at all and probably not best practice but I only have funds for one DI at the moment and I need to use both DI channels so for a temporary set up this should work?

 

Thanks for you great advice so far...