dashroom66 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi, I operate as a sole trader, doing a little bit of lighting production and hire (I mainly just do electronics design and software, it's just a little bit on top, done for fun more than anything else). I have standard hire ts and cs for commercial hires and I often lend equipment (mac 250s, video panels .etc) to mates for their parties, weddings.etcI usually also help out (unless they know what they are doing) - I have no issue with this, but a legal friend has "suggested" that I use all the hire legal stuff even when doing stuff for free (ie Quote and Terms of hire, just £0 on quote) for all of the "I hope this doesn't happen, but..." clauses. Personally doing this would strike me as a bit of a £#@! move - so I'm just wondering what everybody else does, and if not doing this is as dodgy as he is making it out to be (I reeeeaaaaallllllyyyy don't want to do this) Thanks in advance http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I issue a standard hire document with t&c on the reverse listing all the equipment supplied in detail. I include the proper charge, and then a discount on the price. That way people know what they are getting. And there's a proper record of what I supplied in case anything gets damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 ...(I reeeeaaaaallllllyyyy don't want to do this)... Then don't. There is nothing in Law that says you have to. If you are happy with any perceived risk by not doing it then don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_L Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 If you ever want to rely on the agreement, you might also consider charging them a nominal fee (£1?) to ensure that the contract is enforceable. Whether or not payment passed between you (and the enforceability of your standard terms) might also be material to whether your insurer accepts liability in the event of something happening to the kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It may make me sound like a bit of a grinch but, back when I had a fair bit of gear, I'd pick only groups/causes that I actively wanted to support then provided gear...and ME...for free with me taking responsibility. Very occasionally I'd let somebody I knew well use the gear but, even then, I'd make sure that I was technically the responsible person (and that my insurance covered it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Personally doing this would strike me as a bit of a £#@! move What ... asking someone to hire out expensive kit for free? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is when you have to make a call between a Facebook friend, who isn't quite the same as a real friend. If only you could unfriend people in real life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 If only you could unfriend people in real life! You can. Or at least make it so they never want to talk to you again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashroom66 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Thanks for your input Much appreciated http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojc123 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 It's taken a bit of practice but I've learned to say no recently. It's surprising how rarely I get asked now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Usually getting the T&Cs in place starts to ascertain the start of the liabilities and responsibilities, -especially in the event of an incident.Kit falls on someone they want money but the DJ mate isn't insured, your insurance starts to wriggle as you didn't rig the items, could be your pocket taking the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emsgeorge Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 One from us: A local charity we help out from time to time, giving them radios and cctv kit for their big town event every summer. After 3 years of doing it, we had another job that weekend. Contacted the charity event, letting them know well in advance we wouldn't be able to supply this year, or they may have to pay a little for sub hire in. They seemed very put out that their little arrangement (they usually emailed with 2 weeks to the event asking if they could borrow kit) had been changed. I found out some months later, that at the time they are sitting on over £100k, from a new local sainsburys store 'section 107' agreement, to spend on kit. Yet they were still trying to get free kit from a small supplier. for the time we lent them kit, we got no thanks, we got no mention in their literature, and we got abuse form their 'main man' for putting up the cctv. (half his group wanted it, the police and council wanted it, but he didn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 MY attitude was always based on "would I give this charity money?". If I wanted to make a donation as kit hire or services then I'd make that donation, If I didn't I wouldn't, simple really. If I DID make the offer, it included me to look after everything, not optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That was my approach when I was working, Jive. Now I am on the other side and organising charity gigs we always pay at least to cover insurance. When we blag kit from people who get tens of thousands in commercial hire from our tech wizard every year we pay discounted prices but would never even think of asking for a freebie. "Friends and family" get things for free and I have few friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erroneousblack Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It's taken a bit of practice but I've learned to say no recently. It's surprising how rarely I get asked now. I was taught to say no decades ago by an absolute legend of the industry, always stood me in good stead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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