fire place flame effect

[afrobob]

In series! Wire one starter to each negative side of each bulb.

[alistermorton]

In series! Wire one starter to each negative side of each bulb.

 

Thought so http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

[delicolor]

Strand Electric used to make a flame flicker assembly for the Patt. 123 which was quite effective if used carefully.

 

Indeed - you have to be careful with the levels (too much and it really looks false), and we have a gel with multiple strips of reds and yellows for the colour effect.

 

I think the lantern focus had to be quite wide as well, but it would be for a short throw.

 

It is literally 40 years since I hired one (a school show and I actually used it FOH for a "Tales of the unexpected" effect in a dream dance sequence), from memory it had vertical strips of variously tinted glass in the runner assembly and the wheel itself had sort of swirly slots in it rotating at a fair old lick. I thought I had a picture of one but it was just a standard Patt. 252 effects disc.

[alistermorton]

In series with. Across will blow fuses or trip breakers!

 

Exactly - hence my querying.

 

 

 

[themadhippy]

Wire one starter to each negative side of each bulb.

Realy? which wire is the negative on an AC circuit? And shouldn’t all single pole devices be fitted only on the phase conductor? And if it is DC does the cap often across the switch give any fading effect?

[adam2]

Yes fluorescent lamp starters should be wired in SERIES with incandescent lamps in order to produce a flickering effect.

 

Be certain to get the older type of starter known as glow starters, the modern types known as electronic starters wont work.

 

Fuses, single pole switches and single pole circuit breakers should always be connected in the live or phase conductor, a fluorescent lamp starter may be connected in either wire when wired in series with a filament lamp.

 

 

[indyld]

One of our students recently make quite a good job of a flame effect in a fireplace using similar techniques to d0m3stic electric faux fires. He did some research into their design and made up something using a rotary spindle with various blades of foil attached to it and fired PAR 16s at it from within behind the set. The resulting flames licked up the back of the chimney piece, can't remember if there was perspex involved or just straight onto the backing.

 

Edit to add: Come to think of it, the spindle was driven by a mirror ball rotator hook clamped to a vertical scaff leg. The foil may have been the old school favourite of pie tins etc. In any case, the effect was pretty realistic considering it was created using bits and pieces laying around the LX workshop.

[Jivemaster]

The old electric "coal fires" used to have a GRP panel moulded to imitate the coals and the gaps in the fire then there were black, orange and yellow places carefully painted.

Later ones had cuboids of glass in shades of orange and red and yellow. All of these had a "fireglow" lamp (three peg BC fitting as opposed to two peg) coloured orange.

 

The flicker was always created by a small fan rotating in the current of warm air from the lamp. Best lube for the fan was a 2B pencil (direct application graphite!).

 

 

Frankly Junk shops and other house clearance companies should be happy to give you one or two, They have to pay for WEEE otherwise.

[indyld]

I mention the more modern flame effect fire design as it actually looks like a flame :-) The older ones I used to have looked more like a GRP moulding of coals with and orange lamp and low tech KK wheel trundling around. Oh, wait...Hehe.

[Jivemaster]

So there is a choice for every budget! with associated levels of realism. Check that the fluoro starters work in your rig and check that they don't intrude into the(any) audio.

 

Why don't you get a video fire and a proximity detector to identify when the "log" is being put on to trigger associated smoke and sparks. Remember the fish pool floor projections at PLASA where walking in it caused visual ripples do one for your fire (may have to sell a couple of houses for budget!)

[kitlane]

The monitor showing video would be more effective, but getting the fire to flare up on demand (without seeing the join..) is likely to be tricky on a showstring budget - although video's not realy my thing so I may stand corrected!

 

Actually, this would be one of easier video transitions. If the effect of adding the log is an instantaneous flare of flames, smoke and sparks then a straight cut will do. Screenmonkey and all the other usual suspects would manage it. Probably even Powerpoint, these days.

Except speaking as an LD how can I light someone standing in front of it without swamping the effect or putting a shadow on it? Shadows on a "real" fire are fine of course but won't look the same on a flat vertical screen (stands back to be flamed - get it?)

 

Steep angles and shutter cuts?

[vinntec]

Steep angles and shutter cuts?

Yes but OP started with "I am helping with the lighting on a small scale production." - trying to keep light off this unit will need a relatively large number of lanterns, and probably profiles rather than fresnel/PC as you suggest which most small venues just won't have. Of course it all depends where it is. But the point is it has to be visible to be any use while at the same time someone throwing things on it means actors being up close and personal to it. Yes it is possible to light it, but not easily in a small scale production as well as maintaining face lighting. If it is a box set the lighting angles may already be limited.

 

Probably, an internal flicker unit or birdies would work better in this kind of environment then shadows on actors can be used naturally and it doesn't matter what light falls on the fire (to a lesser extent than a video panel IMHO). Yes a lot of steep lighting can be used, but that might mean a lack of face lighting around the fire, depending on lines of sight from lighting bars/booms. So not a no-no, just a big challenge for a small venue to achieve especially for an effect of a few seconds... That's all I am saying.

 

it is quite similar to our set designers' desire to often have a window face on to the audience, lit behind, and the cyc/cloth about 2-3 ft behind (we have fixed LX bars...) - but actors standing in front of it AND even climb through it in some cases. The actors must be face lit but they don't want any direct light or shadows on the cyc/cloth! In our tiny theatre that means instead of one rig of face lights from LX1 which might otherwise be perfectly adequate, we need three rows getting gradually steeper moving upstage so three times as many lanterns.

[pmiller056]

I had to do a coal fire effect for an amateur production (= no money for hiring). Because of the stage and set layout we could not sensibly or safely get mains power to the fireplace. I ended up using some car indicator lamps stuck through a sheet of metal in the bottom of the fire basket under the coals. An Arduino controller with a modified program downloaded from the net made the lamps flicker randomly. It was powered by a motorbike battery - turned on by the crew when the scene was set and turned off when the scene was struck. PM me if you wish further details.Peter

[JTilling]

Hi! Wanted to thank everyone for all there useful comments.

I have no got hold of an old electric fire (in surprisingly good condition!)

 

Now to get it installed into the set tonight.

 

Thanks again :)