iWoodzy Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 You allowed to have a motorbike, moped, car, etc on a stage. There are no rules with the Health & Safety Executive saying you can't. Use your common sense, where you don't let people muck about round it, make sure the kick stand is fully used, if it need two people to pick it up (if it falls over), have to people picking it up. CheersiWoodzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitlane Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 You allowed to have a motorbike, moped, car, etc on a stage. There are no rules with the Health & Safety Executive saying you can't. Use your common sense, where you don't let people muck about round it, make sure the kick stand is fully used, if it need two people to pick it up (if it falls over), have to people picking it up. CheersiWoodzy Hi iWoodzy and welcome to the Blue Room. It is a long time since there have been such specific regulations. The 'rules' are not 'with' the HSE - they are a regulatory and enforcing body that may propose new regulations but the regulations are made by Parliament. We have a risk assessment based system and there are a number of regulations that relate to the motor-bike-on-stage scenario that would require a suitable risk assessment. You have, perhaps unwittlingly, made a start on one of those risk assessments. "...if it need two people to pick it up (if it falls over), have to (sic) people picking it u." That is the first part of your Risk Assessment under the Manual Handling Operations Regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 There are no rules with the Health & Safety Executive saying you can't. But there are going to be rules (terms & conditions) set by your insurance company. There's a very good chance that they will mention flammable liquids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro_gearloose Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Have you tried getting flammable fluids out of a motorbike? Its surprisingly difficult. My motorbike fell over onto its side a couple of weeks ago. Guess how much fuel escaped from the almost completely full tank? Not a drop. Same with the oil, and coolant fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Is it not time to get the venue management, the licence holder, and the insurance specialist together to see what can be done. Then to involve the owner of the potential bike. Each will have a slightly different take on things and someone has to bring them all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmeh2 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Have you tried getting flammable fluids out of a motorbike? Its surprisingly difficult. My motorbike fell over onto its side a couple of weeks ago. Guess how much fuel escaped from the almost completely full tank? Not a drop. Same with the oil, and coolant fluid. Hi Old topic, but oh well. I'm guessing that you have an engine with fuel injection. Try dropping a bike with carbs and watch a huge puddle develop underneath it. It is almost impossible to empty any engine that has had petrol inside it. Draining the tank is not enough; fuel remains inside the engine, pump, filter, fuel rails and injector inlets (if FI) and float bowls, jets and choke circuits (if carb'd) Brand-new bikes are still a no-no as they will have been test-run at the dealership or at the MOT station prior to delivery to the forecourt. It is possible to do this, as I've done it for shows, although it involves dismantling and removing the entire fuel system, then turning the engine over on the starter to expel any residual vapour. Taking the battery out is absolutely essential, as others have said. Also be very aware that for bikes with a kickstart, the engine can still fire if the ignition is on, even if the battery is removed. All the bestTimmeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It is possible to do this, as I've done it for shows, although it involves dismantling and removing the entire fuel system, then turning the engine over on the starter to expel any residual vapour. Taking the battery out is absolutely essential, timmeh2 dear boy I would like to invite you to a show next year that involves lots of rather large motor bikes being driven on stage,donuts and burn outs preformed and then said bikes driven off stage,the "hilight" of the weekend is a drag bike being driven into the center of the dancefloor to do as many donuts,and destroy as many dancefloor pannels possible whilst the headlinning band are doing there oncore,all this is done with the full knolage of the local licencing officer and emergancy services.Do bring a face mask as the burning rubber fumes can get a bit much after 4 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It is almost impossible to empty any engine that has had petrol inside it. Draining the tank is not enough; fuel remains inside the engine, pump, filter, fuel rails and injector inlets (if FI) and float bowls, jets and choke circuits (if carb'd)I can only guess that you've never been to a motorshow or worked on the launch of a car / motorbike.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmeh2 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hi Chaps I was referring to the issues if you wanted to have a bike (or any previously-run engine for that matter) completely devoid of petrol. The show / gig / job / event (choose your preference) that I did this was a product launch in the conference room of a rather expensive hotel. The proviso of the bikes being allowed in the venue was that they were absolutely free of petrol, with a catch tray underneath just in case any oil dripped, which I found rather amusing as the bikes in question had dry sumps. I'm sure that the licensing people where fully happy for you to to smoke out your own arena, which I presume would be a massive outdoor tent/stage type affair. I'm not sure you'd get permission to go that in the theatre I frequent with its wooden stage and considerable rake. Apart from the fact that I wouldn't let you. And Hippy I would love to accept your kind invitation. I haven't been to a bike show since I relinquished my position as an LD for a little gathering that occurs near Stratford every August (well, usually anyway.) All the bestTimmeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro_gearloose Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I'm guessing that you have an engine with fuel injection. Try dropping a bike with carbs and watch a huge puddle develop underneath it.Nope. It has carbs, but it also has two sets of taps on the tank (one manually operated, and the other operated by the vacuum of the engine), and a clever fuel-vapour recovery system. Not a drop was spilled, and neither did any fuel get into the cylinders. Edit: Hippy, can I come along as well? Sounds like a fun show :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmeh2 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Nope. It has carbs, but it also has two sets of taps on the tank (one manually operated, and the other operated by the vacuum of the engine), and a clever fuel-vapour recovery system. Oh that's very clever. Usually the petrol flows through the overflow ports and dumps it on the road, or into the engine. In the case of my CBR600, it actually did both which was REALLY annoying! :) If Hippy gets me a ticket I'm sure you can come as my +1, just walk around with some really important-looking cable coiled around your shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro_gearloose Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I could just walk around with my crash helmet and bike jacket. They'll think I'm part of the cast. Anyway, we're in danger of drifting off topic a bit, so we'll have to drag back on topic by posting a couple of pics of bikes doing burnouts and donuts on stage. Thats a hint Hippy ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Slightly o/t and a bit of a thread hijacking. I have a production of lady in the van coming up, and the director would like the van to be driven on and around the stage when it first appears. I am currently checking out the situation with our insurance company to see what the policy states about having to draining all fluids etc, but in the meantime I thought it would be worth seeing if anyone else has done this recently and how you prepared your van and any issues that arose from doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We removed the fuel tank, and drained all fuel from the remaining system, running the engine outdoors until it spluttered out, then left it outdoors for the fumes to evaporate. We moved it on stage by hand, with SFX engine noises. In our production it just had to move a few yards to appear from behind the garden wall into the garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 ...around the stage... Vans aren't exactly known for having tight turning circles. How big is your stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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