2 way live video connection for band

[stricko]

Hi there, new on the forum, so be gentle with me.

 

We are staging an amateur theatre production with a live band, but we have no option but to place the band in a separate room. We are looking for a cheap but effective way of providing a temporary 2 way live video link, so that the MD can see the stage, and the cast can see the MD. In the theatre, there will be a monitor, either on the front edge of the stage, or on the front row of seats, and a camera of some sort suspended from the lighting rig. The band will be in a room directly behind the stage, approx 20m from the front of stage.

 

Between us we have a bunch of video cameras, monitors, TVs, webcams etc from which we could cobble something together. But we like to know how it could/should be done.

 

Please feel free to point me to a previous thread that I've not spotted.

 

Many thanks

 

Paul

[Hilary Watts]

I think I'd approach the problem as 2 separate 1 way video links which from a purely technical point of view is a lot more straightforward - simply connect a camera to a monitor (eg from the FOH camera to the band room), then do the same again but with the signal running in the other direction from the band room to the monitors for the cast to see.

 

There are various threads on here which mention possible problems with latency but if you stick to old fashioned analogue equipment you can probably avoid these problems altogether.

 

I suspect your main problem will be at the human/ technology interface: getting a decent picture into the band room irrespective of the lighting state on stage and putting the MD's monitor in such a position that he can see it but it doesn't get in his way or the way of the band. The other side of the coin is placing the monitors for the cast in such a position that they can be clearly seen from a reasonable proportion of the stage and getting a clear picture of the MD's beat to show on them. The only way of dealing with potential problems in these areas is to set up the equipment as soon as possible and try out various options in the rehearsal room(s) even if you can't get into the performance space.

[stricko]

Thanks Hilary

 

I'm old enough to know better, but I'm more familar with the digital stuff. When you say "old fashioned analogue", what do you mean?

[bruce]

Composite video and co-ax cable etc.

[the kid]

It would not hurt to have a distribution of monitors depending on how big the stage is and what space you have. SL CS SR monitors.

 

It may be preferred to have the monitors equivalent head height though, so the talent are not looking down all the time.

[stricko]

I'll have a check to see if we have cameras with composite out. Would we need baluns to use coax over long distances? Sorry, all new to me this.

[dbuckley]

Old fashioned cameras and monitors ("tellys") are better for this application than the latest digital kit as the digital kit introduces latency, and a couple of devices at a few frames latency each is quite a long time, and thus your conductor can be seen to be out of time with the music. Many of us have a small pile of old kit, kit that is pants by any current standard, but is perfect for MD links!

[stricko]

Just tested my baby HD camcorder which has a previously unused "AV" socket. Nice clear(ish) signal on a 32" TV. Excellent. Should I be using Coax, composite cable, or CAT5 for carrying the signals to and from the band room?

[Hilary Watts]

I think that in the past I've used a composite video lead (a cheaper version of this) over 20 metres without any problem. It may depend whether you can take a fairly direct route between camera and screen or whether you have to lay the cable along corridors etc giving a much longer run than 20 metres. It may also depend to a certain extent on the quality and level of the camera output. It's probably worth experimenting with a long piece of cable but with the camera and screen in the same room. If you have several shorter pieces of cable just link them up one by one until you notice significant deterioration in the output.

[J Pearce]

The security cam we use for MD cam is quite happy driving a 30m lead to the booth and then being split three ways there, twice to local monitors and one being fed a further 20m.

Think about contrast for your MD cam, it is important that the cast can clearly see face and arms and not much else, black and white is usually better than colour for this.

[Shez]

Just tested my baby HD camcorder which has a previously unused "AV" socket. Nice clear(ish) signal on a 32" TV. Excellent.

Try clapping you hands or some other clear movement in front of the camera whilst watching the monitor - you may be surprised just how much delay there is. I've been through this one before - every modern domestic digital camera I tried added far too much latency to be usable. Your display screens, (unless they're old school fully analogue) will also have digital processing which will add further delay - I encountered up to about half a second of delay through the system whilst trying different options. Anything more than 3 or four frames will make life difficult.

[sleah]

It would not hurt to have a distribution of monitors depending on how big the stage is and what space you have. SL CS SR monitors.

 

Going OT slightly.... If it were me, I'd be inclined to avoid multiple monitors, for the simple reason that if the MD were in the room, he could only be in one place at a time!

Obviously the fact he can't be may mean there is no suitable location for a monitor to replace the MD like for like, but the poster suggested a monitor on the front of the stage or front row of seats which I would say is roughly where an MD would be standing anyway, so why pamper them with 3 MD's?? ;) :** laughs out loud **:

[J Pearce]

Many shows that have the MD in the normal place now add screens to enable cast to lift their heads and still spot the MD while having eyeline across to other areas of the auditorium.

[Dave m]

I'm very tempted to suggest that your live band is in a different room, so why not play to prerecorded, but....

 

if it's only 20m then I would just use coax on composite.

 

Places like freecycle are full of people giving away crt TVs for nothing. They won't have any latency.

Ebay as well for more professional ones but you'd bay a lot for postage so collection would be better.

 

A CCTV camera might be a better option as loads are good in low light or have IR lights built in . that helps in BDOs

 

you might experiment with what the MD wears to get the best image to be seen on screen.

 

you can buy cheap composite distribution amps if you need them. Maybe buy from somewhere that you can return them to, but buy in advance of the tech so that they are available.

[AfroAlex]

Hi

 

I've just done the same thing as your trying to achieve.

 

We used a swann IR security camera from maplins plugged directly into the composite on the telly with negligible delay or lag.