Old Patt 23 Question

[Bainesey]

Dear All Lighting Buffs

 

Phil here from the lantern in Sheffield.

 

As my theatre is still in the dark ages we do still use a couple of Strand Patt 23's

 

My Question is. if they have been on a while they create a burning smell. I have opened all of these lights up and given them all a good clean. and the smell still wont go away if they have been on say 10 mins.

 

Is there any way of combating this or is it just what they used to do 'Back in DAY'

 

Any tips?

[paulears]

If they still have the original wiring set - as in asbestos covered cables, they can wear through, and start to arc - especially where they are compressed by the little metal clamps. They are dust traps, so you can detect the common dust burning smell compared to electrical arcing smell. Other than that, they do just smell 'hot'. Has the smell changed recently?

[adam2]

If the burning smell is of burning dust, and the lanterns have been cleaned internaly so that no excesive dust is present, then I would not worry.

 

If however the smell is of arcing or burning rubber or plastic, then that is a bit more worrying. As posted above these lanterns originaly used asbestos wireing, I have seen many examples in which the asbestos wiring has been replaced with rubber or plastic of types unsuited to the heat.

Whilst arcing is a possibility, I would expect any arcing between live and neautral or earth to have blown the fuse. Any arcing in series with the lamp wont blow the fuse but will result in very conspicous flickering of the light.

 

That leaves as the most likely reasons, harmless scorching of dust, or hot internal unsuitable wires.

A less likely cause would be some foreign object in the lantern, an astonishly small and easily overlooked, piece of rubber band, or of gaffa tape etc can produce a smell.

[ianknight]

It might be the spring that supports the centre contact on the lampholder starting to age - as it moves away from the lamp base, it might start arc'ing a little. The only way you'll really know is see if the solder on the centre contact of the lamp has started to reflow but you might be as well to swap the lampholder if you have any spares knocking about.

 

Don't worry about still using Patt 23's - I suspect a lot of folk still do (I know we do at the Criterion) but only some will admit to it :P

[Bainesey]

Gonna Say I have Replaced all the wiring and the Smell is still there. Its just the fact that I rig them on our balcony . dont want punters worrying!

[vinntec]

Silly question - are these original T1 lamped P23 or have they been converted to something else like T26? Also I don't think you have said what kind of smell it is? Dust burning, hot metal, electric arcing? Have they ever been repainted, if so with what? I have used loads of P23 in the past and they didn't smell any different to anything else when on for a long time.

[Young Johnstone]

What's wrong with the good old P23? The theatre I used to design at had rooks of them, and 123's!

I used 15 or so on the perches for one show just to run them at 20%. for that lovely colour temp! You can get used to S4's too easily!

[alistermorton]

Yup, we have a load of P23s and P123s in our stock, and they're still good lanterns.

[david.elsbury]

You say you replaced the wiring - what type of flex did you use?

[kerry davies]

I would go with Vinntec and suspect paint or mounted upside down doing funny things with heat internally. I only think that because you mention balcony mounted.

[Bainesey]

Also . Any ideas on how to focus the buggers and not pop them HA HA!

 

Oh and I used standered TRS! for the rewiring .

 

they are run on t28s

[Brian]

Oh and I used standered TRS! for the rewiring .

There you go; you've answered your own question as to why they smell.

 

Now go and take them out of service before you electrocute someone.

[Bainesey]

but thats just on the outer wire . not the inner 1

[Brian]

but thats just on the outer wire . not the inner 1

 

Then why don't you tell us EXACTLY how, and with what, you've rewired them. We aren't mind readers you know.

[smalljoshua]

That's still pretty dangerous, if the TRS is in contact with the lantern it will get hot.

 

There is a reason lanterns are wired in silicon flex.

 

Josh