Strand 250ML

[gibbothegreat]

Hi Folks, Am in an ongoing search for our ideal lx desk, and wondered if anyone has real-use experience of this desk?

 

 

To give some background, we're a 300-seat theatre with mixed use - touring theatre, bands, concerts, conferences, and amdram. Our lighting is mostly generics (102 channels at present) but with a few movers. In the four years we've been open, there are only a couple of shows that have done anything that I couldn't have done easily on an M24, mostly it's colour washes and specials. Touring theatre with more complex demands tend to bring their own desks.

 

We currently have a Leapfrog96 and a 2nd-hand Strand 520i. The former is moderately serviceable for live busking, but it's physical size is a big drawback for one-person operation, and I find it simply awful for theatre work due to the lack of easy keypad entry of levels (and I don't particularly like the OS syntax. The Strand is of course fine for theatre, but not a great live busking desk, and again it's size, whilst better than the Leapfrog, is still a bit of an issue.

 

What I'm looking for is a really simple desk with reasonable ML capacity in a small form factor, that is usable by incoming amateurs and professionals (the latter not necessarily lampies). Favourite from what we've seen so far is the Jester TL Extra which Zero88 kindly let us demo: the only thing I didn't like was the appearance of the monitor, which I found rather unclear and unattrative in its colour scheme, but my no2 didn't like it so much. It's an attractive price too, which is a factor, it's unlikely in the current climate that we'll get funding for something like an Ion...

 

I've recently become aware of the Strand ML250. On paper, it looks the biz, but I can't find any feedback about them either here (1 thread from a new user only) or in the wider web. Anyone any hands-on experience of this with feelings/judgements to share?

[jonhole]

due to the lack of easy keypad entry of levels

 

Hi,

 

Did you know that you can go to 'Special', go onto page 2, and click 'Enable Command Line'? The Multi Function Keys (MFKs) become a number pad and you can use Syntax to adjust levels. Once you've enabled the command line, you can also use a USB number pad to do the same thing.

[gibbothegreat]

due to the lack of easy keypad entry of levels

 

Hi,

 

Did you know that you can go to 'Special', go onto page 2, and click 'Enable Command Line'? The Multi Function Keys (MFKs) become a number pad and you can use Syntax to adjust levels. Once you've enabled the command line, you can also use a USB number pad to do the same thing.

 

 

Hi Jon, yes I did know that, that was what the 'easy' was referring to! I have to say I don't find the way it's spread out sits under the hand particularly well: I find it so much easier with a dedicated compact keyboard including all the ancilliary keys such as 'thru', 'minus' and so on - like the Galaxys or Geminis of old. Although for that matter, I'm rather disappointed in the Strand 520 in that department, those useful anciilliary keys don't seem that well placed to me. I like the Jester's layout better, and the 250ML looks to be fairly compact and handy too.

[J Pearce]

ETC's Element may be of use for generic busking and theatre stacks with ML, but won't be great for ML busking.

Have a look at the Chamsys stuff, it does both busking and stacks very well.

[gibbothegreat]

ETC's Element may be of use for generic busking and theatre stacks with ML, but won't be great for ML busking.

Have a look at the Chamsys stuff, it does both busking and stacks very well.

I had looked at the compact range of these, and liked them, at least on paper: my main worry is that this wouldn't comfortably meet the criteria of being

easily usable by incoming amateurs and professionals (the latter not necessarily lampies)

 

Also somewhat more expensive than the Strand or Z88 options (although that's not a deal-killer: I'd rather fight for the money for the right product than get a budget-led compromise.)

[DNT]

Hi

I came across this conversation while looking for reviews of the strand 250ML. Just wondering what (if anything) you ended up going for in the end. I have had a loan of a strand 250ML in the past week and am growing to like it. My desk of choice would be the ETC Ion which I cannot afford so now looking at the strand. I also looked at the 200 plus as the price suits me better but but could not make any sense of it at all.

Any ideas or suggestions welcome.

 

Denis (DNT)

[alexforey]

I reckon ETC Express with a touch screen is the way to go. With Magic Sheets, you can set it up with big buttons for non-LX people, but it also has a bunch of advanced features, and is useful to learn as the majority of the professional theatre industry seems to run EOS, which is just one step up in terms of complexity.

[alistermorton]

If you like Ion would a Nomad setup suit? You'd need a laptop (as Alex says, a touch screen is very useful) and either a gadget to get DMX or a network node, plus the relevant Nomad dongle. Price will be dependent on your channel count.

[gibbothegreat]

Steer clear of the 250ML, like your life depended on it! It's full of bugs, and Strand haven't put any effort into developing it - up until a couple of days ago, the last software update was February this year. Strand's support had been abysmal: if you go to the forum My link, you'll see that not only have they not dealt with known issues, quite often they don't even answer really basic questions, and whilst their man on the forum used to talk a good talk, it was hardly ever backed up with actual upgrades or bug-fixes. In fact, from my experience, I'd go further and say - steer clear of Strand as a whole, if anything they're worse than they were at the post 500 series era.

 

It's such a shame, because the potential is there for it to have been a really nice desk in a niche that, at the time it came out, no-one had really made their own. We keep it as a back-up desk now. In the end. we've got a Zero88 FLX, which is working very nicely for us, and is eminently affordable - and I absolutely couldn't fault Zero88s support for it, which is top notch.

[DNT]

Steer clear of the 250ML, like your life depended on it! It's full of bugs, and Strand haven't put any effort into developing it - up until a couple of days ago, the last software update was February this year. Strand's support had been abysmal: if you go to the forum My link, you'll see that not only have they not dealt with known issues, quite often they don't even answer really basic questions, and whilst their man on the forum used to talk a good talk, it was hardly ever backed up with actual upgrades or bug-fixes. In fact, from my experience, I'd go further and say - steer clear of Strand as a whole, if anything they're worse than they were at the post 500 series era.

 

It's such a shame, because the potential is there for it to have been a really nice desk in a niche that, at the time it came out, no-one had really made their own. We keep it as a back-up desk now. In the end. we've got a Zero88 FLX, which is working very nicely for us, and is eminently affordable - and I absolutely couldn't fault Zero88s support for it, which is top notch.

 

Thanks for that. I get what you are saying and interesting that you went for the Zero88 FLX in the end. I had a demo of it recently and was really impressed by its ease of use. I have been a Strand lover for as long as I can remember ( I can even remember the junior 8 dimmers and Pattern 223 and 123 lanterns!!) and really liked the 500 series. More recently I have grown to like the ETC Ion as it was the board I was presented with when in various venues.

 

As I am on a tight budget, I am now down to the ETC Nomad gadget/dongle solution as suggested by "Alistermorton" or maybe a Jands Vista M1 solution. The entry level Zero88 boards are too limited and the good ones are beyond my budget. Again any thoughts would be really welcome.

 

 

 

 

Denis

[theatretechie]

Hi,

 

I read far too often on this forum of people 'Opinions' with no real use of a product. Just "I heard this or that".

 

The strand 250ML is a very capable console in the right hands.

I have used one once.

 

But I do know my old stomping ground bought one for their new Studio build only a year or so ago and they love it.

 

I suggest you drop them an email and ask an actual user.

 

The guys using it the most are John Cude and Nick Mogg at the Barn Theatre in Welwyn Garden City.

 

I hope that helps.

Here is their website.

 

http://www.barntheatre.co.uk

[gibbothegreat]

Hi,

 

I read far too often on this forum of people 'Opinions' with no real use of a product. Just "I heard this or that".

 

Seeing as I'm the only one that's opined on the desk, I'll guess that was aimed at me. If you had read my post more carefully, you would see that we did buy it at the time of my original post, and my opinion is firmly based on experience of trying to use it over a 2 year period. We still own and use it now, although that#s largely because it has no significant resale value whatsoever. If you have any further doubts, just read the user's forum at the link I posted - those are all real world users posting significant issues and oft-times not even getting responses, never mind solutions.

 

The strand 250ML is a very capable console in the right hands.

I have used one once.

I would say rather that it's a moderately capable console for the right job, rather than the right hands: that job would largely be confined to generics and not involve anything too complicated with intelligent fixtures . Anyone who asks a lot of their board will find the 250ML is not up to it - largely because of poor design decisions in the hardware (for example, the reason it can't take an external keyboard is because there's insufficent memory capacity), and subsequently because it hasn't been supported or developed properly. There are too many bugs still extant, and as far as I can tell not one of the excellent suggestions that have been put forward by users have been adopted. If it had been, I'm certain it would be all you claim for it and more: I still read the forum in the hope that it will get sorted, because at heart I think it has real potential. But 10 months without a single update is pretty hard to take when there are plenty of known issues. When users are driven to initiate a thread asking 'Is that the sound of tumbleweed?' http://www.strand-dev.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6667 then it's fair to say that manufacturer support is somewhat sub-optimal.

 

You may well have been lucky and not run into the sort of problems other have, but please don't assume that because other's opinions differ from yours that they have to be based on less valid grounds.

 

Denis didn't describe what level of sophistication he requires, and it may be that the desk is enough for him: using it in situ is the best way to tell. If it is, they're excellent value, I have no doubt it will be easy to find suppliers who would be happy to give him a keen price to get them off their stock. But he should make an informed decision, and be aware of the pitfalls

 

 

[themadhippy]

The strand 250ML is a very capable console in the right hands.

I have used one once.

 

But I do know my old stomping ground bought one for their new Studio build only a year or so ago and they love it.

 

so youve only used one once but your mate says there brilliant

 

I read far too often on this forum of people 'Opinions' with no real use of a product. Just "I heard this or that".

[theatretechie]

Gibbothegreat - Nothing was directed at you. Read my post just as you said to read mine. I stated the Forum not you specifically.

 

User forums are of course a great place to get information. But just remember people complain far more than they ever praise. Thus those forums are usually 80% complaints. Not a good place to start in my book.

 

I was simply offering an avenue where the OP could talk to a current end user and have solid feedback and ask questions with a possible face to face conversation rather than a forum thread.

 

themadhippy - I've used one once (you are correct there) but no where did I say 'My mate says its brilliant'. I said they love it. In comparison to the ETC Ion they have in the main house, they like them both. So maybe there is something to be said in the fact they use two ends of the spectrum (as viewed by many posts I've read on here).

 

There is no need to start being sour about a comment. We are all entitled to our views, and indeed opinions. I feel its better served if we give facts when someone asked for help or advice.

 

Sorry if you all feel differently.

[DNT]

Thanks for the posts on this issue. Sorry that it has generated some heat. That was not my intention. I respect all the opinions offered and appreciate that they are given in good faith.

 

Ian, I feel your pain in trying to get the desk to respond to the tasks you have attempted to do with it. Over the years, I have used the 200 (both the earlier version and the later "plus" version) and have found them both to be ok as preset desks but wholly unsuitable as either memory desks or DMX fixture desks. Therefore I have ruled them out in my search. That is what brought me to the 250 ML. It seemed like the answer to my needs, although still beyond my budget. I find myself in situations occasionally where there is little or no equipment in the venue so I have built up a stock of generics and LEDs and it is for those situations that I need to have something. My cheap and cheerful Behringer desk is already not up to the task, so I set about looking for something better. My preferred desk is the ETC Ion, but it is well beyond my budget and is already available in the professional setting in which I work, so I got a loan of the 250ML over the holidays and have been putting it through its paces with reasonable success. However, I can see how it would not be up to the standard of the Zero88 one that you eventually bought and which I would also love (although it is twice the price here in Ireland). It seems that the 250 is certainly better than the 200 but still has limitations.

 

Jon, thank you for the link to the people who are using the 250 at present. I hope to contact them to get some feedback from them as well.

 

At this stage, unless I get a really good deal on the 250, I think I will be looking at the Jands M1 or the ETC Nomad solutions, both of which would not last a day in a professional setting but might just make it over the line for me, being on a tight budget.

 

Thanks to all for their input and I would be open to other suggestions as well, if people feel they would like to suggest any other solutions.

 

 

 

 

Denis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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