A better way to freight shows...?

[gregakehurst]

Hi all, it can't just be me that has this problem and I'd be interested to hear any thoughts or solutions -

 

I'm a self employed Production Manager and I make quite a bit of work that is of the scale that doesn't (quite) fit into a 3.5t van anymore so increasingly find myself skirting around hiring a 7.5t which involves the grim prospect of an operators licence. I know it's not impossible to apply for and it's one solution to the problem, however it feels that there must be a different way that doesn't cost the earth. It would also involve the various companies I work for individually applying for the O licence which is a bit of a non starter.

 

I know I could split the loads across 2 vehicles but that doubles every cost

I could pay Paul Matthews but I on my budgets that sounds like a pipe dream

I could use household removals companies but a fair bit of my work crosses the North Sea to festivals in Europe or over to Ireland so that isn't ideal either.

I could use a freight handler but that has a time implication across the sea and they get cross if it's not on a pallet.

 

So there you have it - there must be a way, a simple, affordable way to get big bits of wood and metal to where I need them. Any recommendations of freight companies appreciated etc

 

Cheers

 

Greg

[Derek Tallent]

Hi all, it can't just be me that has this problem and I'd be interested to hear any thoughts or solutions -

 

I'm a self employed Production Manager and I make quite a bit of work that is of the scale that doesn't (quite) fit into a 3.5t van anymore so increasingly find myself skirting around hiring a 7.5t which involves the grim prospect of an operators licence. I know it's not impossible to apply for and it's one solution to the problem, however it feels that there must be a different way that doesn't cost the earth. It would also involve the various companies I work for individually applying for the O licence which is a bit of a non starter.

 

I know I could split the loads across 2 vehicles but that doubles every cost

I could pay Paul Matthews but I on my budgets that sounds like a pipe dream

I could use household removals companies but a fair bit of my work crosses the North Sea to festivals in Europe or over to Ireland so that isn't ideal either.

I could use a freight handler but that has a time implication across the sea and they get cross if it's not on a pallet.

 

So there you have it - there must be a way, a simple, affordable way to get big bits of wood and metal to where I need them. Any recommendations of freight companies appreciated etc

 

Cheers

 

Greg

 

The easiest solution without going down the operators licence route is a 3.5t van with trailer. We get a payload of nearly 3 tonne out of our Jumbo Transit/box trailer combination, which is more than your typical 7.5t box.

 

No O licence requirements if you're carrying own goods, but tacho required....

[gregakehurst]

Hi all, it can't just be me that has this problem and I'd be interested to hear any thoughts or solutions -

 

I'm a self employed Production Manager and I make quite a bit of work that is of the scale that doesn't (quite) fit into a 3.5t van anymore so increasingly find myself skirting around hiring a 7.5t which involves the grim prospect of an operators licence. I know it's not impossible to apply for and it's one solution to the problem, however it feels that there must be a different way that doesn't cost the earth. It would also involve the various companies I work for individually applying for the O licence which is a bit of a non starter.

 

I know I could split the loads across 2 vehicles but that doubles every cost

I could pay Paul Matthews but I on my budgets that sounds like a pipe dream

I could use household removals companies but a fair bit of my work crosses the North Sea to festivals in Europe or over to Ireland so that isn't ideal either.

I could use a freight handler but that has a time implication across the sea and they get cross if it's not on a pallet.

 

So there you have it - there must be a way, a simple, affordable way to get big bits of wood and metal to where I need them. Any recommendations of freight companies appreciated etc

 

Cheers

 

Greg

 

The easiest solution without going down the operators licence route is a 3.5t van with trailer. We get a payload of nearly 3 tonne out of our Jumbo Transit/box trailer combination, which is more than your typical 7.5t box.

 

No O licence requirements if you're carrying own goods, but tacho required....

 

Cheers Derek, that's really interesting - I'd sort of discounted that because of this from VOSA:

 

"If you are towing a trailer behind a vehicle that is slightly below 3.5 tonnes gross plated weight, eg Ford Transit or Mercedes Sprinter-sized vehicles you do not need an operator's licence provided that:

 

• the combined gross plated weights of drawing vehicle and trailer do not exceed 3.5 tonnes"

 

Surely your trailer and jumbo has a combined gross plated weight of over 3.5t?

 

Cheers

[jonathanhill]

You will need a B+E entitlement on your driving licence to tow a trailer such as mentioned above, included in the entitlements of a per-1997 licence, or easily attainable if you have a post-1997 one. Your gross train weight will likely be 7 tonnes.

 

As stated, you will need a tachometer, and you will have to conform to the break and rest schedule.

 

One word of warning however, being overweight is a serious matter, that can result in a hefty fine (of the order of several thousand pounds). However, it is the police that deal with vehicles sub 7.5tonne, not VOSA.

[gregakehurst]

**

Aha, not required if you're not transporting for "hire or reward"...?

[Stuart91]

The whole trailer / towing situation is very complex.

 

To avoid the O-Licence, you'd need to make sure what you are doing cannot be construed as courier work. If you are employed by the tour, moving set that has been built for and purchased by the tour, then you're *probably* in the clear. But if you are freelance, or your own company is contracted by the tour, then VOSA might take the view that you are engaged as a haulier.

 

There are a few examples listed on this VOSA info sheet which give a good basic idea of where they set the boundaries.

[gregakehurst]

The whole trailer / towing situation is very complex.

 

To avoid the O-Licence, you'd need to make sure what you are doing cannot be construed as courier work. If you are employed by the tour, moving set that has been built for and purchased by the tour, then you're *probably* in the clear. But if you are freelance, or your own company is contracted by the tour, then VOSA might take the view that you are engaged as a haulier.

 

There are a few examples listed on this VOSA info sheet which give a good basic idea of where they set the boundaries.

 

Cheers for that one - I've emailed VOSA with the details of the work and lets see what they say.... I'll let you know!

 

You will need a B+E entitlement on your driving licence to tow a trailer such as mentioned above, included in the entitlements of a per-1997 licence, or easily attainable if you have a post-1997 one. Your gross train weight will likely be 7 tonnes.

 

As stated, you will need a tachometer, and you will have to conform to the break and rest schedule.

 

One word of warning however, being overweight is a serious matter, that can result in a hefty fine (of the order of several thousand pounds). However, it is the police that deal with vehicles sub 7.5tonne, not VOSA.

 

I've got the licence so that, at least, isn't a problem!

 

I had a little run in with VOSA at Hull docks a couple of years ago, believe me they're not bothered if you're driving something smaller than a 7.5t - they were more than happy to give me a fine in a slightly overweight 3.5t Luton. My fault, I felt very stupid and I've learnt my lesson - hence this conundrum!

[themadhippy]

However, it is the police that deal with vehicles sub 7.5tonne, not VOSA.

Are you sure?only im certain it was a vosa vehicle that pulled the van over ,escorted it to the weight bridge and issued the fine for being 200kg overweight,no sign of the police anywhere

[Stuart91]

If VOSA are around, the traffic police usually aren't far away, so the distinction isn't that important anyway.

[Grum]

 

I could pay Paul Matthews but I on my budgets that sounds like a pipe dream

 

 

I would suggest that this is the time where you, as production manager, need to either tell your production team to reduce the amount of kit they're carrying, tell your Producer that they need to increase your budget or find a cheaper freight company.

 

I've had plenty of production managers tell me I need to reduce my lighting rig due to transport restrictions.

[gregakehurst]

 

I could pay Paul Matthews but I on my budgets that sounds like a pipe dream

 

 

I would suggest that this is the time where you, as production manager, need to either tell your production team to reduce the amount of kit they're carrying, tell your Producer that they need to increase your budget or find a cheaper freight company.

 

I've had plenty of production managers tell me I need to reduce my lighting rig due to transport restrictions.

 

I could indeed do any of those things but I'd rather like to find a way to make something work before restricting designers. There must be a middle ground between Paul Matthews and cutting something so I'm trying to find the middle option. Of course there might not be a satisfactory way but you don't know unless you look!

[GR1]

Much like children designers are at their best within limits. Design has to be suitable for use and that includes how it can be trucked. If the designer needs more truck space then they must cut the cost of the set to free up more money for the trucking. Otherwise hire a 7.5 tonner and get someone to drive it with the correct licence and insurance or use 2 x Sprinters. There is no 'strap it on the roof of a bubble car' solution.

[kerry davies]

However, it is the police that deal with vehicles sub 7.5tonne, not VOSA.

 

Aha! Caught you. VOSA were given certain police powers a few years back and that there Hippy is, yet again, right on the button.

 

For Greg, this time last year a contractor arrived on-site having been "pulled" and told to leave his 4x4 and trailer until it could be unloaded as he did not have a tacho. While waiting for an employee to arrive and share the load they took great pleasure in telling him that had he filled up at the station beyond the weighbridge, instead of the one before, he would have got away with it.

The weight of driver, fuel, tools and crew is oft forgotten when calculating loads. Don't get caught. Go on a diet?

[Pete McCrea]

Agreed with the above.

 

VOSA have infered that part of their job is to ensure that the rules are followed to ensure that there is an even playing field when it comes to the use, loading and driving of goods vehicles.

 

We have a restricted O licence, so when needed we can get a truck and driver to do larger jobs. However once you start that, there is a mass of regulation, and paper trails to be followed. We have legal obligations to retain records of drivers hours etc for several years after they drove them. As a result we've got digicard readers and software to enable us to download driver cards and the digitachos.

 

As soon as you drive for 1 minute 'In Scope' of tachometer rules, VOSA will expect you to diary your driving hours, so if you get pulled on route back from a Norweign Punk Folk festival you can prove that you are in compliance of the WTD and drivers hours. So that back to back 18 hour shifts, 4 hours of sleep the. 8 hours of driving could cause problems.

 

So despite our O Licence, we still regularly make it "Someone else's problem" and book a trucking company, so all that is there worry.

 

One route might be to try some local owner drivers or other haulage companies in the area. They might not understand our industry, but might have capacity they'd be willing to see turned into revenue.

[Jivemaster]

You might as well get the transport right, missing a gig because VOSA pulled you and you missed the ferry is your responsibility and liability.

 

Someone has to fully understand and impliment the driving and vehicle law get a professional before VOSA/Police get you.