Advice on external lighting..

[butter]

Hello Blue Room.org people.

 

Hope your all well, I'm back again.

 

 

I'm looking at lighting a corner shop with a wash of some kind on both fronts (it being a corner). The actual dimensions are as yet to be mailed to me but I'd say 15 meters by 10 meters length. It is a four story Victorian building with big sashes dotted about the place is in a "very" prominent retailer position.

 

 

As far as budgets go, it is at the moment - not great but the fiancée has a grasp on realities, so is flexible.

 

 

The client's brief as it stands is to "wash" the outside of the building. Being in such a prominent retailer position as it is, I don't want to offend innocent passers by with mad strobing resulting in people convulsing on the street but would obviously like to achieve a resultant pleasant effect. (hmm.. convulsing passers by - thinks to himself - hmm). As it stands his idea is to use maybe five or six units around half way up the building firing up and down. It's probably the way it will go but I'm thinking to fire down from the top with maybe three units, maybe a meter! out from the building for a more comprehensive impressive effect. This is where lumen output and coverage comes in, and you guys. I will have the exact dimensions soon. What is to be achieved is yet to be discovered.

 

 

The overall effect will be outside wash contrasting with the big sashes lit from the inside. All done very tastefully of course.

 

 

Power is good, scaffolding is up, to all four floors and builders are on it. Trouble is I have to sort it a.s.a.p while things are as they are, internally as well but that's another story.

 

 

Just throwing this in to the mix, although there is a lot more to it. luminaries (is that right) selection is important right now. Witch ones! Been on the Martin site looking at there IP stuff etc.

 

 

The lights themselves would need to be full DMX as the client wants full wireless remote control. An iphone was mentioned. There is a Linux server under construction at the moment. Till program under construction - ahem. Not sure how much of this is accessible to me at this point but that's another important post. The interior is at the building stage - just, although he has wired CAT5 all around the place - nice. If it's where I need it is to be determined.

 

 

Any ideas/help really appreciated with exterior lights/coverage.

 

 

 

Malcolm.

 

 

 

ps: He's painted it dark grey with white stencils.

 

 

 

 

[gyro_gearloose]

I take it that this is going to be a permanent install, and not just a one-off for launching the shop? If its going to be permanent there are a few things you may not have considered, such as:

 

You'll need to service the lights and replace dead lamps. How easy will access to the lights be once the scaffold has gone? Will a ladder be enough, or will you need a cherry picker? The shop is on a corner - can you even park a cherry picker close enough to be useful without incurring the wrath of the traffic wardens?

 

Will the meter-long booms you mentioned stand up to high winds? If you install them, it'll be your responsibility if they fail.

 

Do you really want wireless DMX? Cable is cheaper and considerably less error prone. You're probably better off running DMX cables to each unit back to one wireless receiver, rather than having a receiver in each unit.

 

Do you need planning permission to do what you are suggesting? Are you absolutely sure that you either don't need it or that you've already got it?

[maeterlinck]

Not wanting to sound rude here, but do you have any experience of doing this? Do you have the correct insurance to do the specifying and/or installation? Do you have planning permission for it?

 

Your question sounds more like 'how do I do this?' rather than 'anyone got any suggestions of manufacturers or products that can do x, y and z?'

[kerry davies]

Try Googling "Architectural Lighting Forums" (or even Fora?)

 

They have all sorts of stuff on visualisation like THIS which I don't even understand.

 

Gyro is right to point up planning, maintenance, access and the hazards with wireless control and the permanent-install architectural lighting units are entirely different from theatrical or even the temporary ones that theatre people use for this purpose.

Maeterlink is also correct in that I suspect that Professional Indemnity insurance, though probably not mandatory, would be very much advisable.

 

Best in a case where work is in a high-profile, retail setting to get all the I's dotted and t's crossed.

[headoned]

Iv done a bit of external lighting installation in my previous job and as mentioned before planning is your first port of call. as far as fixtures go Pulsar make some good ones http://www.pulsarlight.com/

you could have mout a dimmer like this http://www.liteputer.com.tw/product_detail.asp?id=508 inside a sealed unbilical box on some dim rail and find somwhere to mount it?

to enable ipad control your should be looking at some form of wireless version which im sure exists wont be cheap tho

 

 

[Jivemaster]

If it emits light it eats electricity, so why not install a control cable (at the same time).

Unless it's a temporary setup for a season then this will need full planning permission which will be seen as changing the appearance of the front of the building. A full set of luminaires protected to IP6n will not be cheap.

[butter]

Hi.

 

Sorry maybe I should have emphasized some things a little more clearly. Everyone here is fully qualified and professorial.. There are the clients - in-house fully trained professorial builders and electricians, and then my own - fully qualified electricians and builders who specialize in this field as a career. Nothing "I propose" gets past any one of them without their full approval. Full risk assessment and close examination of all appropriate legalities will take place before any work is carried out. Thanks for your concerns though, it's nice to know you care.

 

The bottom line here I think is that the client does not want to employ a company to oversee the whole job. He is a "more than competent at most things, master of none" kind of guy but does have a very sharp team around him. My input I guess you could say, at this point is "creative"

 

Many thanks for the obvious issues brought up though. Very good points all of them.

 

Malcolm.

[paulears]

So what creative ideas have you come up with? This will perhaps enable us to help. Quite a few lighting designers do architectural work, and Status Quo's LD designs garden lighting when he isn't touring!

 

We can no doubt suggest fixtures that can do X, Y or Z - but you need to set the parameters.

 

As for planning permission, an Indian restaurant took over a local country pub, and installed some nice LED lighting outside, and got it banned the first night it was turned on - retrospective planning permission failed due to complaints and it cost a fortune and can't be used. Lighting buildings up is not something that automatically gets the green light (pun intended).

[butter]

Hi again (briefly)

 

I must quickly point out by the way, as it would appear my first post was not very clear about this either. When I mention "wireless" I'm referring to wireless control of the entire (software/hardware) control system to be, not wireless DMX.

 

This is something I will have to investigate as I have mainly worked in a live environment with buttons and faders and never utilized the wireless functionality of the boards I have worked on. That post would be about a product and it's functionality and whether it would be software or hardware? How it could be Incorporated into the Linux server, if at all etc etc.

 

I didn't want this to get entirely off track so this is a rushed reply,This was to be a separate post entirely.

 

 

 

Thanks Paulears, interesting point. So your saying even though planning went through, because of complaints from locals it was then withdrawn?

 

As regard the building, its a big Victorian building that can be seen from 400 meters away. The client has intimated he'd be prepared to spend money if the ideas were interesting. I know mid level up & down lighting will probably be the way to go but just interested in any other ideas. If I could - I would like a good strong solid wash (oh so subtle) all the way from top to bottom with accurate and balanced color (consistency). Done well it would be enough, and legal???

 

The obvious question I was trying to ask was what lights might be good for the job. I realize LED has the ability to be consistent but suggestions for which light might be more appropriate for this reply. Longevity is the word here. Price verses Quality as usual. Would it be better to go with many lights or few.Three me thinks.

 

How bout a nice big feckin wave effect and a dozen Atomic 3000's spangling out the consumer buying guinea pigs? Joke. Although....

 

Sorry the girlfriend is nagging and I must put off my "creative" hat for now but will return with much gusto.

 

M

 

One thing I am sure of in this question is I want a warm palette.

[ninjadingle]

I'm by no means an LX guru, but saw these on the Highlite website - might fit your criteria??

Chameleon RGB flood

[TonyMitchell]

15 meters by 10 meters length. It is a four story Victorian building

 

As regard the building, its a big Victorian building that can be seen from 400 meters away.

 

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif

 

also, do you know if the building is Grade II listed, or not?

[paulears]

Planning permission went through based on the description of the usual external illumination, but once the locals saw the colour changing and brightness of the entire finished project, the complaints rolled in and the council determined that the installation did not match the paperwork. They argued that it did, and it was simply a misunderstanding by the council of the capabilities - but the outside is now dark, apart from the illuminated sign. The council's view was that it was in effect, not just external illumination. On top of this the local county council also suggested it could be a distraction for drivers and therefore a potential danger.

[ImagineerTom]

...and architectural lighting, installed in venues where there's not a resident lighting op won't be using desks and wireless control and all the other fancy stuff you're talking about - it'll be hard-wired in to place with some sort of replay unit. On almost every level you've described so far it seems this job is way out of your expertise and that someone who knows and understands this stuff properly needs to be brought in to project manage this, otherwise a lot of money is going to be thrown away on kit that is un-necessary, features that won't be used and quite possibly a project that will be shut down by the council the first time it's switched on.

[butter]

Err.. that's your opinion based on what you think you know about me, but you don't know, or haven't bothered to think about it! You angry little uniformed man.

 

Peace out.

[Ynot]

Err.. that's your opinion based on what you think you know about me, but you don't know, or haven't bothered to think about it! You angry little uniformed man.

 

Peace out.

WHOA there!!

 

We 'know' only what your profile says, and what you've written in the 4 posts on this topic. You might forgive a little circumspection based on that meagre fare, but you haven't done yourself any favours by not actually answering some of the questions put to you.

 

As someone who has just co-ordinated the refurbishment of our theatre venue, including the addition of RGB LED fixtures, I would echo the point that planning permission IS required, and having dealt with the authority, (ours, anyway) they can be VERY picky about this sort of thing. My guess is they'll want to know the make & model of any illumiation you propose as well as light output and exact positions, and how it might affect neighbours and traffic.

 

Secondly, you say that the client wants full control over the fixtures... My personal view of that is that anything more than a set-up-and-leave option is going to be pretty much way OTT. I would be asking the client (in the nicest way) exactly why they want this control, as this is 'just' a shop front. And having differing changes to the lighting states MAY also be something that the planners will want to assess - ie if the normal state is just a colour wash that changes on a loop, but the client then has the ability to flash it about like Blackpool Illuminations, then they may (and possibly would) object!

 

I believe the posters are ALL trying to help you, but remember that sometimes the responses may not say what you want to hear because others with real world experience may be trying to warn you of hurdles!!!