Wheel Chairs

[Cob]

Hello,

 

 

I currently work in an education establishement with a theatre and I am aware of a show coming up where there will be a lot of wheel chairs in the audience. Being my first show at the venue I am posting to see if there is a generel "rule of thumb" regarding the amount of wheelchairs in a venue. I am aware that a safe evacuation of an audotorium should take no longer than 3-5 minutes. The audotorium seats upto 200 people with lots of space between the seating and the stage. Any info on this would be appreciated.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Chris

[Ynot]

I suggest your best first place to start would be the local authority - there MAY be sections in the premises license which dictate how many wheelchair spaces should be safe to accommodate, and they should also have a DDA (or similar) department who can give educated advice on your specific situation.

 

I seriously doubt that anyone here, not knowing the venue, will be able to make any informed comment.

 

 

[Andrew Edwards]

I agree with Tony. There is no rule of thumb and it is entirely dependant on your venue layout.

 

For example.

 

How do you currently accommodate wheelchairs?

One could argue that in order to accommodate more than your current wheelchair capacity, logically you would need to make modifications to your layout, e.g. removal of fixed seats.

 

It is not just about getting them out of the auditorium, you need to either get them out of the building or in the short term to a suitable and appropriate refuge. From this, I would say that the wheelchair count on upper floors MAY be dictated by either the capacity of any refuges or your ability to safely evacuate them to ground (and outside) in a timely fashion.

[jonathanhill]

As a part of your venue fire risk assessment, there should be a section detailing the number of wheelchair users, and the subsequent evacuation plan for those users.

 

As each venue has a unique set of access and egress problems, and as each venue should have a fire risk assessment specific only to that venue, it would be inappropriate for us to suggest answers to your questions.

 

You should talk to, but not limited to, your local Fire and Rescue Service, Licensing Authority, Building Control and possibly some others.

 

Have you talked to Ticketing, as there should be a recognised number of wheelchair users that can be accommodated within the auditorium.

 

e2a: Most fire risk assessments, and calculations performed to assess whether fire exits can accommodate the required number of persons exiting use a figure of 150 seconds as the time to complete an evacuation. This can run over, but you must have compelling arguments as to why an evacuation will take longer than 150 seconds, such as the auditorium is a completely enclosed 60-minute compartment.

[Cob]

All usefull feedback thank you vey much

[Jivemaster]

Much will depend on the other abilities of your wheelchair users, and the supervision available to each of them. Maybe you should consider an able bodies pusher for each wheelchair as part of the plan.

[paulears]

Our venue is totally unsuitable for wheelchair users, and the Yellow book doesn't help us one jot. The rules on wheelchair access, started by the old Disability Discrimination Act, demanded premises needed to install the lifts and ramps - unless the building design prevents it. In our building, the audience are all on one level - 1400 of them! The main entrance consists of stairs at the rear up to the auditorium, but even at the stage end, there are steps down to the outside level, dropping around 4 ft. When the DDA was the big news we had a wheelchair lift fitted, and gave up on it after a year - as it took so long to get people in and out - cycle time for the up loaded, and down empty cycle was nearly 3 mins. We reverted to out previous system, which is a R'alloy ramp - truck style, with ribbed, spiked surface - the usual type. Wheelchairs are then pushed up it - using a pusher and a side guider. Our risk assessment was quite in depth when we made the change - and we concluded that given trained staff, it was quicker and safer. However - we continually get complaints from customers, but the reality is that if wheelchair users wish to come - then this is the only option. Permanent ramps within the Yellow book rise angle would need to have five times the travel distance, and even routing this directly outside, with a double back would be a serious obstacle to the problems of getting people safely of a long, thin pier.

 

However - in our view, the most serious wheelchair safety problem are the customers who come in wheelchairs, but book ordinary end of aisle seats. These people give up their wheelchairs when they either guide themselves, or more frequently get assisted by their partner, into their seats. In the case of an emergency evacuation, with everyone going out, how would anyone get these people's wheelchairs UP, against the flow? This seems a really tricky issue, because the disabled person is blocking an entire row of people because they cannot move!

 

So my venue appears to break the rules, as we know them, yet our own local council (who do not have any link with the venue) hire it regularly for special shows for another council - designed to cater for elderly people, who are bussed in and contain a far greater than normal quantity of wheelchair bound people. So many wheelchairs that we have to use a special storage system with raffle ticket style numbers. At the end of the show it takes 20 minutes to get these people out of the auditorium, and that's with FOH and Stage people working flat out, with staggered exits for non-disabled people. We actually stand on the stage at the end with all fire exits shut, and then I guide each coach through the safest exit, so that they get out as quickly and safely as possible.

 

This system has been developed over the years with the two councils. We have no idea under what rules/guidelines or recommendations this process is governed, and to be frank - I suspect the council don't either. If there was an alarm activation with this audience in, I estimate we could evacuate within 20 minutes, possible 15 - but no quicker. None of this is in the premises license, and our current license does not contain any details of our safety curtain. We keep up the maintenance of this, and check the closing time as we always did, but there seems no requirement to do this any longer. If a show coming in needs to set items across the fall line, we now allow this - whereas before we always insisted it was kept clear.

 

We seem to be in the position of banning wheelchair users if it was determined our manual steep ramp system was unacceptable, because a dedicated, gentle ramp system is not an option.

[Andrew Edwards]

Is this not where 'reasonable adjustments' kicks in?

 

Would it not be unreasonable to compromise the evacuation systems.

[paulears]

I really don't know, and in a way, perhaps the best thing would be for the powers that be to provide their input. In practice, and based on perhaps 9 or 10 events, we can evacuate - in these circumstances, all the wheelchairs in the auditorium in around 15 minutes, when we have around 40 wheelchairs to deal with. The real block are the motorised ones, and in an emergency, I'd not even try to use these, as the owners always refuse to leave the keys in them, so in an emergency, you'd have to collect keys, then return to the scooter and try to drive it against the flow.

 

Has anyone else got a powered wheelchair lift? If so, do you use it for emergency evacuation? We've never been able to as the cycle time and need for operators makes them unsuitable. I wonder if the disabled are actually that 'safe' in any emergency situation that could be without staff. I've often wondered how you would get staff to these areas to actually manage an evacuation because people really in 'escape mode' are unlikely to want to wait?

[Robin D]

A very difficult one. I spent several weeks in an out of a wheelchair earlier this year and and still on crutches. I must say the experience has given me a huge insight!

 

I reckon that at least 50% of people in wheelchairs are 'able to get about somehow' without them. (That figure rises to at least 95% when you look at the outdoor electric scooter/buggy things!). I was in the category of semi disabled. Distance was the issue given the weight of the plaster so a family trip along the seafront couldn't happen without the wheelchair. Some I saw in powered wheelchairs seemed perfectly able to walk when out of them, indeed I was offered a powered wheelchair on loan. I have to say its this latter group of people who a) use their wheelchairs like battering rams b) know their rights and c) park wheelchairs in the most inconsiderate of places for everyone else and usually with no thought for safety. DDA does not say that it usurps H&S by blocking escape routes, but talking to some disabled people you would think it did.

 

I hate to say this Paul, but should the worst happen in the scenario you describe, the fact that its a Council event will not absolve you from prosecution. My understanding of the law is that safety is paramount, and if you cannot successfully mitigate the requirements for disabled people and still ensure a safe exit, then the event should not be taking place, (or at least, not in that venue). Of course, in the old days you would just have discussed it with the fire authority. This may be a case to actually ask for their direct advice. After all, were there to be a fire, their staff would be put at risk assisting with an evacuation. I'd also suggest that given the difficulty of your location on a pier, that the decision to allow bridging of the iron fall line may need to be reconsidered. Alternatively set up meeting with representatives of both councils and the fire authority with the stated aim of finding a safer way of operating.

[Ynot]

The question of evacuating wheelchair patrons is, and always will be, a difficult one as well an emotive thing to boot.

 

However you view the policy, it is, I believe, quite normal in theatre evacuations to clearly state that those with wheelchairs are among the last on the 'list' to be gotten out of the premises. Now, this is NOT becaus these venues see them as second class citizens, as has been levelled on occasion, but from plain and simple logic.

A theatre full of fully able-bodied punters can easily vacate the premises within the 3 minutes or so targeted. But put even one wheelchair in the mix of one exit route and that can alter that escape time for BOTH groups. The chair cannot easily or quickly manouevre around the milling walkers, and the walkers by default will always try to 'overtake' the chair wherever they can, which leads to clogging and confusion.

I saw a video (which I can't find the link to sadly) some years ago which demonstrated this effect beautifully. Set in an arena, with temporary physical walls to match a known venue's escape routes, they filmed from above as well as ground level vantage points an 'evacuation' with all able-bodied, then addd a wheelchair or two to the mix, then added more chairs. They also repeated the exercise, as first time through there were no ushers or FoH staff to guide the faux punters, whilst the second sessions they had staff there. With a house full of able-bodied, I recall that the evac times with and without the ushers wasn't very different, but with wheelchairs they DID. On a third run with the ushers holding back the chairs til the majority of the 'mob' was clear they also beat the other two times.

 

The immediate instinct for everyone upon being asked to evacuate any premises is to get out and short of there being a clear and obvious danger in sight of those evacuees, Asking wheelchair bound patrons to observe the 'leave last' policy is potentially a little tricky, although on the odd occasion we've had cause to have a false alarm evac, we''ve not had any major issues.

 

At the end of the day, your evacuation policy is YOURS to compile, and for the relevant authorities to look over and agrre/accept or to suggest modification to.

 

 

[Brian]

As this is a one-off event I'd talk to my local fire authority.

[Simon Lewis]

Does anybody run a disabled refuge system?

 

 

[boswell]

Does anybody run a disabled refuge system?

 

 

 

Yes, we do!

[Roderick]

Quite a few interesting case studies can be found here:

FEMTC 2011

 

I'll keep looking for the video Ynot mentioned.