Degree results

[isabela]

I got a 3rd on my degree... n I missed on a 2.2 by 1 and half points how can I change this.... what do I do now with a 3rd I'm ashamed ?? :( I want to do a masters in the future how can I apply for one now ?

[pjb304]

Your best bet would be to speak to your tutor to see if you can get any scripts remarked which might find you the extra couple of points needed to get up a boundary. I know people who've got 3rds and have got a job they are happy with, so it's not the end of the world. Although I understand that it must be very disappointing.

[Simon Lewis]

...I missed on a 2.2 by 1 and half points how can I change this....

 

I would study the contents of this page carefully, but be warned - most academic institutions will not accept an appeal against an academic judgement. Both coursework and examination scripts are marked, internally and externally moderated, and in some cases second marked before the grades are agreed on. Furthermore, there are usually additional rules and regulations to ensure fair play when results appear close to a degree classification boundary.

 

If a Masters isn't directly accessible, can you find a post graduate certificate or diploma that you can apply for?

 

 

Simon

[Bobbsy]

Moderation: Some off topic and/or unfriendly replies removed--this IS the "Training and Qualifications" forum so, if there's a theatre link to the degre--and we don't know otherwise, the query is valid and on topic. Since a number of members (Simon for example) have the expertise to reply there's no reason to protest.

[paulears]

I don't want to appear too negative, but I get the feeling you expected a 2.2? So you knew it wasn't going to be a first or a 2.1. I'm unclear as to why you want to spend even more time on a MAsters that your results suggest may be, because of the content, to be even further out of your reach. Everyone has a limit. Maybe you just aren't ready for deep study yet. You could do the Masters later. Surely it's a bit like taking somebody with GCSE D's onto an A Level? Every time colleges do this - the D GCSE rarely gets better at the A Level?

 

The point is that grade boundaries have always existed - and if somebody got a first by 1.5 points, that is just as correct as your 3rd. Life's a bugger sometimes.

[WiLL]

I walked away from Central St Martins with a Douglas ( A Douglas Hird, Third) and it has never really held me back. In fact I'm one of three people from my degree class who are actually working in theatre.

[indyld]

The point is that grade boundaries have always existed - and if somebody got a first by 1.5 points, that is just as correct as your 3rd. Life's a bugger sometimes.

 

On the slightly OT subject of individual marks, rather more jaded academic colleagues will joke that they only give 49s, 59s, 69s, if they are feeling flush with the time to deal with an inbox full of indignant emails about how unfair it is that a student "missed out" by one mark. The fact of the matter is that a n9 is at the very top of a particular set, while the work doesn't warrant being in the next set up. You could say it was a good mark.

 

However, back on topic, the actual final number and classification of a degree is a calculation often based on a complex series of assessment items that are all input into system and come out at the other end. Professional practice in marking is to avoid making such calculations and mark the work as it stands. Otherwise, it's a slippery slope.

 

As Simon points out, there are generally pretty robust systems for arriving at individual grades AND additional checks and balances when a result is close to a classification boundary such as a 49.59%. Depending on what the OP means by "1.5" points, not sure I'd call it all that close. Depending on the scheme it takes quite a large uplift in an individual item, or series of items, to move up by 1.5%

 

Although it may be annoying to the individual to feel that they "missed out", that is just human nature. Do you think those students that got a high 2.2 aren't cursing that they should have an upper second? Or those that got a high 2.1, a first? The more sanguine might reflect that they got a very good degree and attained more than they thought possible.

[paulears]

Not really on topic - but liked, I think!

 

It's never the same for the people on the receiving end, and they often seem to take things personally - but the systems for these things has been tweaked every year to keep it as accurate as is possible. My first introduction to how A Level grades and the important boundaries was a bit unlike I expected. There were stacks of computer generated stats available - but all that happened was there were large amounts of people's work in boxes labelled with their mark - all somewhere near the previous years grade boundaries. So if last years A to B mark was for example 80, then we'd look at an example of 85 and we'd all consider it and say yep - an A. Then we'd look at and 84 and do it again - yep, still an A. We'd carry on until just one person wasn't certain - that grade would be recorded by the official as the upper mark, then we'd go down to maybe 75, - a B. We'd all looks and agree it's absolutely a B, then we'd go up to 76 - still a B. At some point we'd lose consensus again, somebody feeling it should be, for that work, an A - so we'd have a range of doubt perhaps 78 to 81, based on what we'd seen. Then they'd bring in more work at these levels and we'd scrutinise it. The exam board officials, by their stats could say if our findings were statistically within the range suggested as accurate based on quantities, distribution and historical factors. Sometimes our grade was within the 'tramlines' on the stats - but if it wasn't, there could be a possibility the work we were looking at was not 'normal' - so more would have to be done. At some point they'd be happy. we'd then do the same process for what is effectively a fail. Same again in the middle range. The other boundaries were calculated by the computers from the top middle and bottom ranges.

 

Damn complicated. I am convinced that the grades produced worked. The perennial argument about getting easier washed over me. The system seemed to me to cope pretty well with papers that were tougher or easier. My personal view is that the real issue is linked to league tables and individual teacher performance monitoring - so in the 'old days' guessing the content was a skills some teachers were better at, while nowadays with very closely prescribed content, teachers can predict more accurately what will be in the exam, so concentrate their entire teaching on that - almost paying lip-service to everything else.

[Junior8]

The point is that grade boundaries have always existed - and if somebody got a first by 1.5 points, that is just as correct as your 3rd. Life's a bugger sometimes.

 

When I was an examiner/moderator - though admittedly not at degree level - it was my invariable experience that work around the grade boundaries was always very carefully examined indeed with every effort made to get it upwards if you could. BUT - and I'm sure there will be those who disagree but I stand by what I'm going to say - it was always my view that experienced examiners had a 'feel' for what was say A or B grade work and in some cases this admittedly subjective view had to be listened to. I'd trust this against any algorithm.

 

To the OP - you have a degree. Most people don't. Don't beat yourself up - celebrate!!!!!

 

Edit - I think Paul and I are saying the same thing but I was typing while he was posting!

[Simon Lewis]

- it was always my view that experienced examiners had a 'feel' for what was say A or B grade work and in some cases this admittedly subjective view had to be listened to. I'd trust this against any algorithm....

 

I have seen institutions apply both approaches. When a borderline case is reached with the subjective system, the board will seek comments from the programme leader, final year project tutor and module leaders. If there is consensus that the student deserves the higher classification, it may be awarded, but often subject to a final comments from the chief external examiner present.

The good thing about this system is that it allows personal knowledge of the student and their abilities to be taken into account. The bad thing is that there is a smal chance that such personal knowledge could be used negatively.

 

The objective system awards the degree classification, and any students who fall into a predefined borderline zone are subject to a secondary set of criteria - usually to detect whether they were generally below the grade with perhaps one module that was better, or if they were generally better but did badly in one module. This is an automated process, and may be considered fairer than the subjective approach.

 

With regards to getting grades "right", all Universities operate an external examiner system, and many will subscribe to external benchmarks or accrediting bodies who will independently consider the level of work and check for grade inflation etc.

 

Paul's account of ow grade boundaries have been tested is interesting. A lot of my work is concerned with internal moderation, and it is very rare for me to come across an initial grade given by a colleague which I would disagree with more than one mark unit (e.g. C+ and B- ).

 

Of course, some venerable Universities apply a Gaussian curve to the final year results, so that there are a fixed proportion of awards. If a particular class had a brace of brilliant students, only a fixed number would get firsts... I have friends who feel quite wronged by such an approach ;-)

[isabela]

im trying to have some work remark ... im trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel .. but even though I have now a 3rd degree with honers I feel like im going to be judge by this if I apply for any job... im so sad .. however still fighting to see if I can have my work remark... thank you for your comment ( pjb304 )

 

the sad thing is that ... a few of my teachers told me that they are never really challenge by the external examiner regarding the marks the teacher decides to give to the work ... I mean the teachers and the external examiners have known each other for years so ( the external examiner always agrees with them ad their making ) ... :(

 

- it was always my view that experienced examiners had a 'feel' for what was say A or B grade work and in some cases this admittedly subjective view had to be listened to. I'd trust this against any algorithm....

 

I have seen institutions apply both approaches. When a borderline case is reached with the subjective system, the board will seek comments from the programme leader, final year project tutor and module leaders. If there is consensus that the student deserves the higher classification, it may be awarded, but often subject to a final comments from the chief external examiner present.

The good thing about this system is that it allows personal knowledge of the student and their abilities to be taken into account. The bad thing is that there is a smal chance that such personal knowledge could be used negatively.

 

The objective system awards the degree classification, and any students who fall into a predefined borderline zone are subject to a secondary set of criteria - usually to detect whether they were generally below the grade with perhaps one module that was better, or if they were generally better but did badly in one module. This is an automated process, and may be considered fairer than the subjective approach.

 

With regards to getting grades "right", all Universities operate an external examiner system, and many will subscribe to external benchmarks or accrediting bodies who will independently consider the level of work and check for grade inflation etc.

 

Paul's account of ow grade boundaries have been tested is interesting. A lot of my work is concerned with internal moderation, and it is very rare for me to come across an initial grade given by a colleague which I would disagree with more than one mark unit (e.g. C+ and B- ).

 

Of course, some venerable Universities apply a Gaussian curve to the final year results, so that there are a fixed proportion of awards. If a particular class had a brace of brilliant students, only a fixed number would get firsts... I have friends who feel quite wronged by such an approach ;-)

 

I dont know really im trying all to research all the options I have n see what I can do really ....

 

...I missed on a 2.2 by 1 and half points how can I change this....

 

I would study the contents of this page carefully, but be warned - most academic institutions will not accept an appeal against an academic judgement. Both coursework and examination scripts are marked, internally and externally moderated, and in some cases second marked before the grades are agreed on. Furthermore, there are usually additional rules and regulations to ensure fair play when results appear close to a degree classification boundary.

 

If a Masters isn't directly accessible, can you find a post graduate certificate or diploma that you can apply for?

 

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

I was not expecting any of them, I though I could get a 2:1 but I had some problems n then couldn't leave the course at all .. so then I could carry on the course later ...

 

n well now I found my self with a 3rd n I really don't know what to do really ... im ashamed of this result to be honest with you ... n yes I know that a 2.2 is not a great result but still I think that a 2.2 is better then a 3rd to be hones ...

 

in a perfect world I would have preferred a 2.1 but I was not able to get it ... so at least now I just want to see if I could appeal against my actual mark and get a 2.2 because I was only 1.5 points away from it .... im just really ashamed and sad and desperate to be hones with you .... :(

I don't want to appear too negative, but I get the feeling you expected a 2.2? So you knew it wasn't going to be a first or a 2.1. I'm unclear as to why you want to spend even more time on a MAsters that your results suggest may be, because of the content, to be even further out of your reach. Everyone has a limit. Maybe you just aren't ready for deep study yet. You could do the Masters later. Surely it's a bit like taking somebody with GCSE D's onto an A Level? Every time colleges do this - the D GCSE rarely gets better at the A Level?

 

The point is that grade boundaries have always existed - and if somebody got a first by 1.5 points, that is just as correct as your 3rd. Life's a bugger sometimes.

[Simon Lewis]

the sad thing is that ... a few of my teachers told me that they are never really challenge by the external examiner regarding the marks the teacher decides to give to the work ... I mean the teachers and the external examiners have known each other for years so ( the external examiner always agrees with them ad their making ) ... :(

 

 

Isabela, I don't want to be too defensive here, but typically an external examiner's role is not to adjust individual grades but to (and I quote from an Institution I know well):

 

(I) To verify that the University's standards are appropriate to awards for which they have a responsibility, taking account of the level descriptors in the University credit framework and any relevant national subject benchmarks;

 

(ii) To assist the University in the maintenance of academic standards by a comparison of student performance with that of students on similar types of programme at the same level in other institutions;

 

(iii) To assist the University in ensuring that the assessment process is valid and fair.

 

 

I can say that EEs do ask difficult and perceptive questions about cohort performance.

 

Grades do not get changed or challenged that much because most of the time the correct grade was awarded. I do hope you are able to resolve something as it is obviously affecting you. However, you may have to accept that you were close to but not successful in getting a 2.2

 

If your Uniiversity will consider remarking, then good luck, - but I doubt if they will do it. You may find more mileage in investigating the exceptional circumstances you've alluded to.

[Jivemaster]

A masters will still be within reach IF you add lots of experience between now and then. Funding may be harder but funding for everything is getting harder anyway. Get out and get a job, leave the bad attitude elsewhere.

 

Alternatively have a chat with your tutor about resitting a course unit/year. This time without the personal circumstances you allude to, whether or not they were detrimental to your results. Yes you will have to pay course and exam fees and sustenance for the next year, no you may not necessarily get a better grade in the end.

[paulears]

I guess in a way this actually does show that they don't just hand them out - and what you put in really does affect what comes out. I do feel sorry for Isabela - but we're not really talking about 1.5 points are we - we're talking perhaps a lot more that you could have got. It does sound like your quest was not to do your best, but just do enough to get a 2nd? I've heard people saying the same thing because they convinced themselves they'd get a 1st, and they treat their 2.1 as a failure. When you apply for jobs that ask for a degree - you've got one! For many you do the old 'leave the grade out' trick - you list the degree title, with the Honours bit because people who don't know will be impressed. Some jobs want the details - but I still tell people about my English A level - in fact, the grade wasn't that hot at all - but my maths and physics was.

 

My question for you is to do with the intention of further study - forgive me, but your 3rd suggests you weren't really immersed in the subject - so maybe it's best to see what the future has in store before considering more!

[indyld]

I guess in a way this actually does show that they don't just hand them out - and what you put in really does affect what comes out.

 

This is unquestionably the case. The phrase "student's generally get the degrees they deserve" springs to mind. This is not the same thing as the one they *think* they deserve.

 

Also, it can be the case that with a course work based degree, say, a 2.1 is hoped for during the final years but things get tense along the way when it becomes apparent that combined provisional marks are pointing toward a 2.2. These students *could* have got a 2.1, but getting such a classification requires being good consistently in all areas of study and assessment items. Or at least have a few firsts in the bag to outweigh some slightly duff marks. If a student actually wants a first, they will have to be excellent in all areas for pretty much all of the time. Taking a load of marks in the mid-low 70s is fine, but a couple of sub-firsts will soon take the overall classification back into 2.1-land.

 

It is not easy to get a 2.anything in Higher Education. We support the students as best we can and they work damned hard and still some are disappointed with their final classification but go off into the world and do great things. Being consistently good, particulary in a coursework situation, isn't a walk in the park which is why we sit there on the graduation stage clapping our guys with real warmth. They well deserve to be proud of such an achievement.

 

The point is that any degree is a good degree and plenty of the best people I know have a 3rd - quite often from somewhere pretty prestigious in their field (rather than the University of Nempnett Thrubwell.) Yes, they could have made more of it maybe but they were young and starting out on life, had a good time and copied their boyfriend's lecture notes occasionally.

 

Sometimes there are acceptable mitigating circumstances but I'd be surprised if this was suddenly a big factor, given that tutors are usually well aware of as student's situation and are able to advise on such things well before the final marks are awarded this late in the year. It seems odd that this 3rd seems to have come as such a shock to the student in question.