PAL +

[Simon Lewis]

Those who are already somewhat suspicious of the IPAF Powered Access Licence scheme will no doubt welcome this new venture with unbridled joy...

[Pete McCrea]

"Be warned though - there's a bit more pressure when it comes to passing the PAL+ course –not all candidates will pass the first time due to the technical challenges"

 

I think the only way you seem to be able to fail your IPAF TICKET, is to be on the wrong side of dead...

 

Cynical I am - surely if the initial training was any good, there would be no need?

 

Pete. Holder of an IPAF Powered Acess 'Licence'

[Shez]

On the day I got my IPAF "licence" (as the instructor repeatedly called it), we did the written test first (presumably to pad out the day), followed by death by powerpoint, followed by the written test again, (to see what we'd learnt) followed by the practical session. I got 97% in the written test the first time around. I still had to sit through the rest of the day but it was all worthwhile as I achieved another 3% in the test the second time around.

And the photo on my card is horribly stretched...

[Simon Lewis]

I wonder how long it will be before PAL operatives are deemed OK to do basic work on MEWPs but only those with PAL+ can do anything fancy...?

[Pete McCrea]

But then how do you define fancy? Off road? Over 10m? With a load in going on underneath you?

[kerry davies]

I would far rather see the PAL+ as the basic requirements for use of MEWP's. If an operator cannot safely do what the course prescribes then IMO they should be far, far away from the beasts.

 

Current MEWP training is a joke, you can only learn to use them with any regard to safety, your own and everybody else's, through supervised hands-on use. If you regard this as fancy then heaven help anyone who had to undergo the old BT assessment. Half the guys were struck off after day one of five by one of the two trainers.

 

Good question that! Does anyone ever fail any IPAF or forklift training? If not it is purely a financial transaction.

To add to this I find that "fail rate" for university courses now means drop-out rate and when students have failed recently some universities just added 20% to everyones marks. Is this the way things are?

[indyld]

Good question that! Does anyone ever fail any IPAF or forklift training? If not it is purely a financial transaction.

To add to this I find that "fail rate" for university courses now means drop-out rate and when students have failed recently some universities just added 20% to everyones marks. Is this the way things are?

 

This question is going to be increasingly pertinent when the Age of Entitlement meets the Cost of Education and the result of "in your face" student fees in HE. I have read of certain institutions adopting a policy whereby if a student fails a module, they are simply deemed to have not taken it at all. One would assume this is because it ruins the statistics in the league tables.

 

From recent discussions in my area of activity, we are pretty clear that we are not here to hand out to degrees but to give the student the opportunity (and support) to gain one. My experience is that students generally "get" that at the moment and people certainly have to undertake re-sits. I'll let you know how it goes into the future when they feel they are paying top whack.

 

I think if I'd failed either my IPAF or my forklift training I'd be wondering why I spent x-many days supposedly learning for it. I did get a 97% on my last FLT test (one time I apparently "looked" behind me but examiner decided I only turned my head and didn't actually look - he was probably right as the warehouse was completely void of people apart from him and I)

 

At least the FLT actually involved a driving test, IPAF was always little more than a few daft questions and a quick hoik up in a Carpet in the car park if there was time. I seem to remember the older Picker tickets (Universal?) actually involved some driving.

[Simon Lewis]

It seems strange that there isn't a pre - PAL training period with MEWPs - you just go on the course and for some it's the first time they've ever used one... Of course you are not actually shown how to drive one!

 

Regarding the comments on universities, the student numbers per module form part of an HEFCE audit, and if a student does not 'engage' (that is submit all assessment components and comply with attendance standards) within the module timespan, the the institution is "fined" around £8000. They cannot "lose" the student otherwise they suffer in terms of retention statistics and financial impact.

 

Failing a module or course is not so common, as most institutions will allowsome form of referral or resit pathway, even if it means retaking failed components as a part time student. Course specific academic failure can be synonomous with dropping out, but not always.

[itiba]

£325 + VAT Per person :o

 

That's on top of the actual price of the PAL card to begin with. Did mine a few weeks ago for £240... absolute rip off!

[bigclive]

I've been stalling updating my IPAF because I don't like being ripped-off by these scammers. I wish BECTU or the industry in general could come up with an alternative that does not involve IPAF.

[Seano]

But then how do you define fancy? Off road? Over 10m? With a load in going on underneath you?

 

Judging by my last IPAF, 'fancy' would be doing anything actually useful, as opposed to a quick hoik up and down into empty space in a deserted car park.

 

 

I've been stalling updating my IPAF because I don't like being ripped-off by these scammers.

 

Likewise. Mine has 'expired' again, deep joy, and so far I've been utterly failing to force myself to pick up the phone and book a new one. I used to resent spending the money, these days I mostly resent the waste of time.

[accessoperator]

Hi all,

 

I came across your forum searching google for criticism or approval for the new IPAF PAL +. I am outside your industry but I do provide professional powered access operator services to various sectors including the film industry from time to time. We are also members of IPAF.

 

I am not here to peddle my wares as you are all very obviously clued up and have your fingers on the pulse regarding new developments within the powered access industry. I have myself posted concerns and comments on another site. (Linked-In / Work at height Network).

 

You are not the first to start questioning recently the quality of some of the trainers delivering the IPAF PAL Course or indeed the structure of the existing course. However, I would like your feedback on the following:

 

1. Do you believe there should be more practical on the standard IPAF PAL course?

 

(Half a day for practical divided by the usual four candidates is not a lot of tutorial)

 

2. Do you think that a separate examiner as opposed to the trainer should conduct final tests?

 

(A bit like you driving test, do the training first then book your examination seperate. Come renewal if you feel confident you could book your exam direct. Also a poor pass rate of first time candidates by a specific trainer would make the trainer buck up their ideas or drop out.)

 

3. I am an advocate of the new PAL+ (I would be as I am a professional operator), however if you were ever to hire in an operated machine would you agree that any rental company or agency who promotes them selves as (Operated Hire/Comes with Operator/ETC) should ensure that the operator was a minimum of PAL+? Operating for yourself is one thing, operating for a client who has blind trust in your ability to operate (and paying for the privilage) is another.

 

4. Should an IPAF operator have a minimum amount of experience recorded in their log book and years done in order to undertake the IPAF+?

 

 

Comments welcome, If anybody ever needs any advice or pointers regarding anything powered access feel free to contact me. Just helping clean up the industry!

[paulears]

I realise it's very different, but we do test people's ability very different in some very common areas - the driving test - designed not to say you are a good driver, just one who is safe. Then it gets much tougher for the people who need to drive larger vehicles or passenger carrying ones. Then you have private pilots - it's a properly controlled system - where you get trained, then tested. I remember my dad failing his coach driving test three times despite driving cars for years and in the end he went on a scheme that took a week, and guaranteed a pass at the end - which of course he did. People statistically MUST fail any form of testing, if the testing is accurate and based on evidence not opinion. If the real reason for the process is to increase and ensure safety, then the test should be taken out of the hands of people who a financial interest in the training. Judge and jury? Probably. I don't have the up to 7.5t on my driving license any longer - the chances of me passing a test to get it back are zero - unless I signed up for a real instructor led course.

[Seano]

1. Do you believe there should be more practical on the standard IPAF PAL course?

 

Probably.

I do believe the trainer should be a good trainer and a skilled operator. The trainer on my last IPAF was neither.

 

As a reluctant soon-to-be candidate yet again, to be honest I just want a trainer who wastes as little of my time as possible.

 

2. Do you think that a separate examiner as opposed to the trainer should conduct final tests?

 

There's a test!? What's the pass rate for PAL?

No, personally I don't think that matters at all.

 

Come renewal if you feel confident you could book your exam direct.

 

Or, here's an idea - no renewal.

And while we're at it, how about changing the name. Stop pretending the PAL card is a 'licence'.

 

... if you were ever to hire in an operated machine would you agree that any rental company or agency who promotes them selves as (Operated Hire/Comes with Operator/ETC) should ensure that the operator was a minimum of PAL+?

 

I would want a skilled and efficient operator, so would be very unimpressed to get someone green enough that it makes a blind bit of difference. If they're not *way* beyond that minimum standard, they're just a waste of valuable space in the basket.

 

Just helping clean up the industry!

Of course you are.

[bigclive]

I've always said that if you told IPAF management that they had to resit their driving test every five years they'd be the ones complaining.

 

I wish we had a government that didn't promote and condone racketeering. Britain needs a reboot at so many levels.