Stage curtains - electric or manual?

[timsabre]

Interesting thread, as more information such as scale has come to light the argument has swung one way then the other. It supports my thoughts that posing the question accurately and comprehensively is more important than a choice of answers.

 

To be fair though the OP did provide the information including the size of the curtain in his first post. It's more a case of reading the question properly before answering!

[J Pearce]

With reference to a cage over a manual drum, my old sixth form (sadly now demolished) had a drum over the half tab winch (main tabs were fixed speed motor), with the spindle protruding through the front of the cage.

Seemed a bit safer than my high school where exuberant opening of the main or half tabs could easily damage a finger.

[hydrus]

We have the manual showtrack system by showtex ( showtex.com ) in our theatre. Both the backdrop and the front curtain have this track system.

 

The curtain itself is 101kg heavy (7,5m high, 15m wide)

I guess all the moving bits together weigh about 130 kg (runners, hooks, rope, pulleys)

 

So that's 130kg you need to set in motion and I can say it is really easy.

You only set it gradualy in motion, not the whole 130kg in once. First you take the first runner with the weight hanging from there, then the second, and so on.

Once the curtain is moving you almost don't need to pull the rope.

 

It was cheaper, it works easier, anyone can do it and it has been maintenance free until now (3 years old, in the same time we have had 2 broken controllers from our electric linesets)

 

As a plus in our room, it hangs from a lineset so we can easily pull it up in the tower. (for cleaning the stage, or even in a show if it is neater to pull it up then to open it.

We couldn't do that with the electrical system because the engine needed to hang on the wall

[howartp]

21m x 7m = 147m² - call it 150

Wool serge is around 500g/m² which gives us 75kg.

Allow for 50% fullness gives a weight of 112.5kg.

 

Even allowing for lining it is nowhere near a ton(ne) but I still wouldn't like to try opening it in a hurry by hand

Thanks T*ny, I have no idea about calculating the weights so a calculation such as that is useful - you're right it is wool serge and 50% fullness.

 

We have the manual showtrack system by showtex ( showtex.com ) in our theatre. Both the backdrop and the front curtain have this track system.

 

The curtain itself is 101kg heavy (7,5m high, 15m wide)

I guess all the moving bits together weigh about 130 kg (runners, hooks, rope, pulleys)

 

So that's 130kg you need to set in motion and I can say it is really easy.

You only set it gradualy in motion, not the whole 130kg in once. First you take the first runner with the weight hanging from there, then the second, and so on.

Once the curtain is moving you almost don't need to pull the rope.

 

It was cheaper, it works easier, anyone can do it and it has been maintenance free until now (3 years old, in the same time we have had 2 broken controllers from our electric linesets)

Thanks Hydrus - great response there. If I could work out how to 'thank' posts in here (can you?) I would!

 

I'll pass this on to our installer.

 

I do have permission to go electric, the call is mine, but I have a fixed budget for the works and if I go electric I have to factor that in against other toys (sorry, expensive equipment).

 

Unfortunately, even though the project manager has volunteered spare funds, the head won't let him spend them on me.

 

As a plus in our room, it hangs from a lineset so we can easily pull it up in the tower. (for cleaning the stage, or even in a show if it is neater to pull it up then to open it.

We couldn't do that with the electrical system because the engine needed to hang on the wall

Now you're talking... <drools...>

 

Unfortunately a fly tower wasn't in the plans last time I looked, and it's a bit late to add one now... :(

 

Peter

[T*ny]

The Showtex Showtrack system is actually Triple E Unibeam sold under a different name.

 

Info here Unibeam

 

Triple E also manufacture the TracDrive motor which bolts onto the end of the track and works on the same 8mm cord.

[WiLL]

21m x 7m = 147m² - call it 150

Wool serge is around 500g/m² which gives us 75kg.

Allow for 50% fullness gives a weight of 112.5kg.

 

Even allowing for lining it is nowhere near a ton(ne) but I still wouldn't like to try opening it in a hurry by hand

 

 

don't forget the lining :)

 

oh, and a possible chain pocket.

[howartp]

Hi everyone,

 

Just to let you know, the meeting mentioned above took place yesterday between the installers, school colleagues (inc head), project manager, contractors and electrical sub-contractors and the outcome following discussions was we are going electric. I'll speak with the installer once he comes up with options and make sure I'm happy with the solution before it goes in.

 

Thanks for all your advice, for and against.

 

Peter

[alistermorton]

As for the reliability issue - we're using power flying more and more because it's much better than the early types, and cinemas have had power curtain for a fairly long time now. I'm not aware of variable speed system, just the usual fixed speed ones - but I bet they're available.

 

We have an electrically winched system which can have the speed varied.

 

The tab controls are duplicated in the lighting box and on the SM's desk, which is occasionally useful.

 

These drum style winders in a school environment, or even a self-op amateur environment worry me, and always have done. When even using them responsibly, it's very easy to get long hair trapped, or perhaps even lanyards with ID cards dangling. If the need is for speed, then it's the attempt to keep up a consistent high rate of knots that can get them out of hand. I suppose a sheet or mesh cover could be fabricated improving safety, but I've not seen one yet?

 

 

We had one at my school and I was always worried fingers or ties would get caught in the drum. It did come off the drum a couple of times, too.

[james.gardner]

Hi Peter

 

 

At school we use a manual currtain winch. This provides to us a much effective and proffesional way of closing a scene.

 

 

James

[paulears]

James - did you read the whole topic? Does your school have a curtain over twenty metres (over 60 ft!) long? How fast could you wind the handle to close a gap that big quickly? Professional way of closing a scene? House tabs usually close/come in for the ends of Acts, rather than scenes, and don't really have much to do with professionally - it just closes off a whacking great opening. The success depends if it can do it at a suitable speed for the production. Some ends of scene might need a very slow in, or a really rapid one!

[howartp]

Just to finish off this topic, we have ordered the Hall Stage DGH10 VariSpeed with 2 remotes.

 

Thanks for all your advice, for and against.

 

If I can work out how to close the thread once I've posted this, I will - if you find it still open, it's because I haven't found the 'close' button!

 

Peter

[david.elsbury]

Always good to get an update, thanks :)

Only mods can close threads but it's not normally done, in case someone wants to come back to the topic years down the track and add to it, rather than starting a new one. :)

David

[Shez]

And we will of course expect a thorough report on how you're getting on with the system once you've lived with it for a while ;)

[howartp]

Always good to get an update, thanks :)

Only mods can close threads but it's not normally done, in case someone wants to come back to the topic years down the track and add to it, rather than starting a new one. :)

David

Okey dokey - I PM'd Paulears earlier but he's not responded yet - many forums I use expect you to mark a thread as 'answered' in some way, so I was probably looking for something more like that - and those threads also frown upon people adding to old posts!

 

And we will of course expect a thorough report on how you're getting on with the system once you've lived with it for a while ;)

 

Of course; if I don't remember myself, do respond to the thread and I'll certainly pop back!

 

Peter

[paulears]

Did a personal reply last night when I got in, but David said pretty well what I did. We tend to only close a topic if it's pointless, or was a specific single question that was sorted - but very often ancient topics get resurrected when they contain useful info - although we get very miffed when people dredge them up to add spam - as sadly often happens when people have a product to push. This one has been quite interesting - from my own perspective, I don't think any of us have experienced a drape length as big as this before. What made me think was remembering the story about when the first automated flying systems were designed, they measured the speed a flyman typically pulled out a bar, but forgot that the theatre the automated one was going into was twice as big, so when they pressed the button it took twice as long for the cloth to go out, because the distance was greater but the bar speed was the same. In a big, tall venue, flybars travel faster - it occurred to me the same thing would happen width wise too, and made me imagine some poor person with arms flailing about like a windmill trying to wind the handle like an aeroplane propeller!

 

It's a cheek - but if at some point you get the thing in and working - could you perhaps take a bit of video? this would really help us see how the end product works and be very handy for the future.