WiLL Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi chaps, has anyone ever produced or seen a guide for how much room needs to be allocated to a musician and their instrument in order to play with some degree of comfort? I'm talking about footprints, height etc. Does a trumpet player need 3 feet by 4 feet? Or would 3' x 3' be enough, or even 2.5' x 3'? How high does the ceiling on a band pit need to be in order to accomodate a double bass (and the getting of the instrument in and out)? How much 'slide room' does a bass trombone require? Not precise measurements you understand but averages. I just think that for people (like myself) who have to occassionally design and construct band pits for productions it would be a useful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I can't give you specifics but in general terms if you think you've given them enough space they'll always want more. Try and remember that sometimes musos will be playing more than one instrument and will need space to store them and it's worth noting that things like Double basses need space above to lift the instrument to vertical to enable it to be put down. Being a bass player myself it's infuriating the number of times I've tonked the top of my bass because the ceiling was too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Ain't that the truth, I was wondering though if anyone had ever compiled a spreadsheet or something to make the inital design more accurate than guesswork and experience can alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 In terms of width, I can get two trumpets/trombones/horns/flutes/clarinets/oboes/bassoons or any combination of the above on a piece of 1x by 2m staging deck. Tuba players need a bit more space to their left to put the instrument down (very hard to put it down on the right, I'm told). I wouldn't want to put anything less than three feet in front of a bass trombonist's chair, and probably four feet for a contrabass trombone...double basses I'd say you need an eight-foot ceiling to be safe. By rough reckoning I think you probably need at least four feet between double bass stools (so two feet either side of each stool). Unfortunately my orchestra is all on holiday at the moment and we're bumped out of the Opera House for a month or else I'd go in with a measuring tape and give you some exact numbers - can do that in mid-June when we're back if you like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyld Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I can't give you specifics but in general terms if you think you've given them enough space they'll always want more. Indeed, such is life working with musos. It's interesting to remember that multi-instrumentalists present a different scenario again and that 'bone players are used to putting their wayward slides into little gaps in a very tight pit. Doing a show with the LSO in what was going to be quite a tight fit, I asked the tour manager if it was possible to "bring the short bows" for that particular stage. I'd love to see someone compile a guide to such a thing, although I think that actually dimensions are very subjective. I quite like GridGirl's "How many musos can you fit on a 2m x 1m bit of deck?" that could be used to put together some sort of spreadsheet calc. It's certainly not a trivial question if you are trying to plan for an orchestra and don't have a great deal of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 It's amazing how tightly you can squeeze them in if you really try. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Maybe It can be a blue room collaborative project. When you get muso's in your venue, have a quick measure up to include space covered by chair, stand and instrument stand(s). Post it on here and maybe I can put together some kind of spreadsheet thing type stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 It's not quite as simple as 'each musician of type z needs a space x metres by y metres.' If you look at how an orchestra is laid out there is a lot of 'dovetailing' going on. Certain instruments, when put in a row will take up less space than if you were to alternate them with something else. Also, with different sections on different physical levels you can get a certain amount of 'overlap'. A good band will adapt to its environment. I once did a show with the RPO where the stage was about half the size they'd normally use. I was impressed at just how flexible they were. Most of percussion ended up in the wings stage right with me. They didn't mind that they couldn't be seen; it meant that didn't have to wear their formal stage wear and they did the show in their casuals. Likewise, over in the wings stage left, sat the double bass and trombones. The harpist spent the whole gig sat upstage of a leg that for some reason couldn't be flown out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 One thing I forgot to add earlier is to be wary of those seemingly little incursions (a scaff clamp here, a scaff pole there) that don't seem to take up much room but can have a seriously detrimental effect on the musos' playing 'space'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktaylor Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi chaps, has anyone ever produced or seen a guide for how much room needs to be allocated to a musician and their instrument in order to play with some degree of comfort? I'm talking about footprints, height etc. Does a trumpet player need 3 feet by 4 feet? Or would 3' x 3' be enough, or even 2.5' x 3'? How high does the ceiling on a band pit need to be in order to accomodate a double bass (and the getting of the instrument in and out)? How much 'slide room' does a bass trombone require? Not precise measurements you understand but averages. I just think that for people (like myself) who have to occassionally design and construct band pits for productions it would be a useful tool.Usually up to the MD to sort out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 My record is 2 guitars, bass guitar, 2 keys and drums all in an 8' square. I cheated a little with some overhang behind the drummer for elbow room. The biggest thing is having space to move the necessary limbs and to get in and out. A drummer needs probably 2' behind the stool to avoid smacking elbows into the wall. Another thing to consider is noise space. As an orchestral percussionist I regularly end up right behind the french horns, which is uncomfortably loud. Similarly I don't like having a bassoonist sat in the small gap between the front of my timps, as the whining never stops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Similarly I don't like having a bassoonist sat in the small gap between the front of my timps, as the whining never stops... I think you'll find that the whining would be happening whether he was between your timps or anywhere else. Funny bods bassoonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Usually up to the MD to sort out! Really? You let your MD design your set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Usually up to the MD to sort out! Really? You let your MD design your set? I think he means the layout of the pit! Every tour I have done, the MD has given the pit requirement, placing position on paper and then its been laid out. Then the placing call with the muso's come in and fiddle around with it, but he always makes the decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 The best one I ever dealt with was a production of Cabaret in a theatre which was in a converted space...we had a 5m by 5m square at the centre back of the stage which could be removed to form a "pit" which was approximately a metre deep - there was no orchestra pit as such. The set designer put a rostra over the top of this pit, and we jammed in a piano, drums, double bass and reeds (clarinet/flute/sax) - and in terms of space around them they had plenty, and enough headroom to sit reasonably comfortably (although we had to take the wheels off the piano to make it fit under the rostra). What we did have to do though was actually dig a hole for the bass player - some of the flooring in the "pit" was concrete, some was just the ground, and so the set crew literally dug her a 1.5m by 1.5m hole to stand in. The MD was not thrilled, but the bass player was perfectly happy (she was a fairly slight girl anyway) and after some stresses in tech week, it all worked out fine. In opera world, the conductors don't have too much say in pit setups - particularly in my pit which is "unique in its design and acoustical properties" and so if we don't sit in a certain way, it just doesn't work. Often the conductors are from out of town as well, so they tend to listen when we say "this is the only way it will work in this pit". The ballet chief conductor that we work with often has some input though - however she knows our pit very well and usually what she asks for does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.