timsabre Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Blimey. Just plug the audio cable in, as long as it is not actually broken it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OllieDuff Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 There are four different control desks as we are using DMX from a Zero 88 Fat frog and analogue DIN from another. Also there is a set of two DMX dimmers and I could patch them in but our desk is out of channel faders (I have also checked that even though the fat frog has two DMX outputs it only has one universe) because the stage is not where it is being performed its in a nearby church, so another DMX controller is being used for them. Also another controller is being used for a pair of Chromaflood RGB's (There is no fixture profile for them on the fat frog or I would have patched them). I don't want to wipe the patch in the desk that has been set up for the stage at school as it wouldn't be worth the hassle to go back to school and have to re patch the whole thing again. The multicore was being used as an easy way to get the DMX signal over long distance as where it is being controlled from is at the back and the dimmers and fixtures are at the stage and as I said in the original post we don't have enough DMX to just daisy chain. Bloody hell. Is there no functionality to save the default patch to a floppy disk, so you can repatch the Frog at your leisure for your show and then restore defaults after the show? In answer to your original question, it's probably fine provided your mic cable is undamaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushypeas Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 ...then it all worked fine without a terminator. Funny stuff is DMX, can't fathom it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munro Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Also another controller is being used for a pair of Chromaflood RGB's (There is no fixture profile for them on the fat frog or I would have patched them). This is a simple thing to solve, you've two options. A) Stick them into three channel mode and use the "Generic RGB" fixture profile. You might have to load this from the fixture library (link to Z88 below) B) Download the Fixture Tools from Zero 88:http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List/Index/58/downloadsThen build a new fixture profile using the DMX table here:http://www.impact-even.com/userfiles/files/telechargement/eclairage/noticechromaflood200tc.pdf Back to the original question and as previously stated, the best thing to do is try. BlueRoom is good, but I'm afraid although some of us fancy ourselves are ninjas, we aren't quite there yet. CheersJM Edit: SPAG/ premature post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sorry just checking you are running 3 DMX desks ?!?! and an analogue ? ? that seems mighty excessive and combersome when it comes to operating. I would much rather repatch the desk and run with 2 than 4. But in answer to the question, there should be no major issue, just have terminators when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Going back to the original question, an audio multicore is going to be pretty much the same as an audio cable with XLRs on the end. If your DMX works on the multicore it should work on the mic cables--but the only way to be 100% sure is to try it. Speaking as a noise boy, I'd really rather NOT have DMX data running through my multicore alongside mic level signals though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Speaking as a noise boy, I'd really rather NOT have DMX data running through my multicore alongside mic level signals though.... Is this due to potential interference between the signals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 It's understandable to be concerned about putting DMX down an audio multicore but in fact I have only found 2 situations when it actually causes problems... 1-if the multicore pairs aren't individually screened. In this situation not only is there a potential problem with crosstalk, but you get all sorts of weird ground loop issues due to the lighting desk being connected to the ground of the audio signals because of the common ground on all the multi channels. 2-if there is already a bad earthing situation going on. If there is an existing earth loop problem the DMX "chatter" can mysteriously appear on audio channels. Other than that, the sound people I've worked with always check for DMX related noise if I pester them to use a core of their multi, and they can't detect any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I think it's down to the potential for problems - rather than guaranteed ones. We all know how strong data signals (think mobiles) suddenly find their way into your system - somehow, somewhere, sometimes - so it seems 'dangerous' to have data, with all it's nasty square edged waveforms stuck alongside an audio line that could have bags of gain applied to it. In most cases, it will be fine, and we've all pinched and audio core to send comms, or even video down in to cure a problem - but it's not good practice. How many times have you used your multi and then run your tester on it to discovery the snare channel actually had a short from pin 1 to pin 2? It's happened to me twice now. The snare mic continues to work fine - but I wonder what would have happened if DMX was running down one of the other cores? I don't know, because I wasn't doing it. Half way through the gig, when the snare line went unbalanced would have been interesting - maybe? DMX is always a little 'magic' - you can't predict how it will work - and random things do sometimes happen. As such, it deserves a little respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 DMX is always a little 'magic' - you can't predict how it will work - and random things do sometimes happen. Actually DMX is very predictable *IF* you stick to the spec. Where it all goes wrong is when manufacturers don't follow it to save a bit of money. I regularly send DMX(ish) data over several 100s of meters of cable to multiple devices in the real world with no problems. As such, it deserves a little respect. Shame many manufacturers don't give it that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 True, you can't beat your own bit of wire. I do a lot of outdoor gigs where the FOH tent is 100m+ from the stage and there's usually a couple of fishponds and a roadway or something in between, the sound multi looks very attractive in that situation!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I think it's down to the potential for problems - rather than guaranteed ones. We all know how strong data signals (think mobiles) suddenly find their way into your system - somehow, somewhere, sometimes - so it seems 'dangerous' to have data, with all it's nasty square edged waveforms stuck alongside an audio line that could have bags of gain applied to it. In most cases, it will be fine, and we've all pinched and audio core to send comms, or even video down in to cure a problem - but it's not good practice. How many times have you used your multi and then run your tester on it to discovery the snare channel actually had a short from pin 1 to pin 2? It's happened to me twice now. The snare mic continues to work fine - but I wonder what would have happened if DMX was running down one of the other cores? I don't know, because I wasn't doing it. Half way through the gig, when the snare line went unbalanced would have been interesting - maybe? DMX is always a little 'magic' - you can't predict how it will work - and random things do sometimes happen. As such, it deserves a little respect. Exactly this. Yeah, I've fed DMX down my multicores too--I suspect we all have--but it's just one more thing that can go wrong, especially with the loose interpretation of DMX standards adopted by some manufacturers. A broken screnn somewhere or the type of short Paul describes and you can soon find out how ugly DMX square waves can sound. I don't feel so strongly about this as to refuse to help but it becomes just another paranoia at the back of my mind when the audience is in and the show is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 The real fun starts when someone connects the lugs up wrong and the dimmer "ground" is suddenly a long way away from where the sound system knows ground is. Its bad enough trashing lighting kit (not to mention the shock potenital issues involved) but trashing the audio gear for good measure will not be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew_ob Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Also another controller is being used for a pair of Chromaflood RGB's (There is no fixture profile for them on the fat frog or I would have patched them). This is a simple thing to solve, you've two options. A) Stick them into three channel mode and use the "Generic RGB" fixture profile. You might have to load this from the fixture library (link to Z88 below) B) Download the Fixture Tools from Zero 88:http://zero88.com/su...ex/58/downloadsThen build a new fixture profile using the DMX table here:http://www.impact-ev...aflood200tc.pdf Back to the original question and as previously stated, the best thing to do is try. BlueRoom is good, but I'm afraid although some of us fancy ourselves are ninjas, we aren't quite there yet. CheersJM Edit: SPAG/ premature post Thanks for that I think I will use the RGB, I wasn't aware there was such a thing thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktaylor Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 First and only contribution to this thread. Save the settings to a floppy for the church. Reinstall after your project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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