Caerdydd Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Slightly OT. Just clicked on the "My Website" link of the OP. Here's a brilliant quote I'd like to share.... "...... X decided to get IPAF qualified for 1a,3a and 3b so that he could put up rig points and hang fixtures safely. He qualified at Easi Uplifts in Bellshill"Must mean I'm qualified too...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Slightly OT. Just clicked on the "My Website" link of the OP. Here's a brilliant quote I'd like to share.... "...... X decided to get IPAF qualified for 1a,3a and 3b so that he could put up rig points and hang fixtures safely. He qualified at Easi Uplifts in Bellshill" Must mean I'm qualified too...... You're behind the times buddy, it's been common knowledge for some time that all you need to be a rigger is a harness and an IPAF ticket. Everyone knows that. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif (Disclaimer: For the benefit of the fun police, I just want to make clear that I have attached a healthy dose of sarcasm to this post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Slightly OT. Just clicked on the "My Website" link of the OP. Here's a brilliant quote I'd like to share.... "...... X decided to get IPAF qualified for 1a,3a and 3b so that he could put up rig points and hang fixtures safely. He qualified at Easi Uplifts in Bellshill" Must mean I'm qualified too...... You're behind the times buddy, it's been common knowledge for some time that all you need to be a rigger is a harness and an IPAF ticket. Everyone knows that. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif (Disclaimer: For the benefit of the fun police, I just want to make clear that I have attached a healthy dose of sarcasm to this post) Yes, hahaha. This was written many months ago by a colleague of mine, but this is not the view we take. This page does need a a re-write to bring it up to current standards. The whole website is constantly evolving, with some pages being left behind / forgotten. The IPAF is just a tool in a riggers arsenal, it's not the do all and end all. It doesn't teach you how to rig at all, just how to access places at hieght using MEWPs. This tool is useful but does not make you an instant rigger... Please close this thread as discussions have moved off access and onto poor English on our website. Completely off topic and not required. Thanks to cynic public comments like that, I am tempted to give up on the entertainment industry. Private comments are welcome, but public humiliation is not. Please close this thread immediately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Slightly OT. Just clicked on the "My Website" link of the OP. Here's a brilliant quote I'd like to share.... "...... X decided to get IPAF qualified for 1a,3a and 3b so that he could put up rig points and hang fixtures safely. He qualified at Easi Uplifts in Bellshill" Must mean I'm qualified too...... You're behind the times buddy, it's been common knowledge for some time that all you need to be a rigger is a harness and an IPAF ticket. Everyone knows that. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif (Disclaimer: For the benefit of the fun police, I just want to make clear that I have attached a healthy dose of sarcasm to this post) Thanks to cynic public comments like that, I am tempted to give up on the entertainment industry. Private comments are welcome, but public humiliation is not. You can't expect the forum to close a thread, on a serious subject, because people are scrutinising your company's marketing. You chose to advertise your profit-making company on the forum, by use of your signature. You chose to suggest to potential clients, who may not be aware of the content of different qualifications, that you were qualified to install rigging equipment and suspend fixtures from the air, under your IPAF ticket. And I would bet a quid that you've 'proof-read' your own page on the site at least once or twice, and you chose not to have it edited off your own back. You can't expect somebody to come along and play God and just brush it all away once it's convenient. If you're going to advertise your company as one which is safe to install rigging (as you do) on peoples' property and in peoples' events, you need to be sure that you are of a calibre that is sufficient to perform that task and that you market it in a manner that is transparent. My personal view is that this thread has cast a bright ray of doubt upon your company's ability to do so. I don't think you're completely sure what you're talking about, I don't think you've got the experience to implement it alone, and I don't think you're entirely familiar with the risks or the responsibility carried in the tasks that you are marketing yourselves as able to undertake on a professional basis. Yes this all came about because of a silly mis-type or mis-understanding in your web development process, but there is evidence of shortcomings throughout the process which you have described here. I think it's great that 3 young and enthused college leavers have put their heads together and are actively getting out there and getting work, I really do. But what I don't think is great, is three young and enthused college leavers putting their heads together and offering a product to end users which is well beyond their operational ability, and then attempting to use information from volunteer* posters on a public forum to fill the gaps in your knowledge and experience. To offer project management services, particularly when rigging from existing structures, it is absolutely imperative that you are 110% qualified and competent to undertake the task alone. If you are not, the only option is to hire people who are. The forum is not a substitute for them. This is not a public humiliation, believe me. Public humiliation would involve the site's posters copying and pasting every last inch of your website and ripping it to shreds in full public view. This is not that. This is genuine constructive advice to stop you from doing something really stupid which negates your ability to ever work again. You can either listen to it, re-assess your situation, and move forward with experience gained, or pass it off as munch and carry on regardless. But sometimes quitting whilst you're ahead can be a lot more beneficial than riding the wave until it collapses underneath you and you go head first into the drink. *(To all contributors) Volunteer: Volunteer your time in posting to the forum; not volunteer as in undertaking your day to day trades as a volunteer rather than a paid professional. Volunteer was used solely with reference to your connection with the Blue Room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Couldn't agree more with David - constructive feedback is far from "public humiliation" and I don't think it's appropriate to demand closure of the thread. You choose to actively promote your company on this forum (by means of the signature). It deeply concerns me that, as this is your company, you claim to understand that "The IPAF is just a tool in a riggers arsenal, it's not the do all and end all. It doesn't teach you how to rig at all, just how to access places at hieght using MEWPs" yet allowed the website to be made live with the aforementioned misleading statement. There is other legislation you're clearly not aware of from looking at the website, such as the Companies Act for instance, but as David says we're not here to tear apart your website or the image of your company. Having things like the IPAF information wrong casts doubt over your (and Fluxity Lighting's) ability to carry out such work, and will actively work against you getting some contracts as if I was looking for a company to provide these services, and saw statements like that on the website, I would continue looking. Also it works both ways, many of your potential customers, who do not understand what IPAF is, are being misled by that statement which implies you have qualifications to carry out the work you do. I think many of us admire your efforts, and going out there and getting work, however advice from a forum does not constitute training and cannot replace the knowledge a professional, qualified, person would bring - don't be afraid to involve external contractors and hire someone else to carry out anything that you don't understand or are not competent in doing and concentrate on what you do best, there's never any shame in that - and it's commonplace. Finally, consider this; If it does go wrong and, for whatever reason, something that you are responsible for falls from the ceiling and someone is injured what is your PLI provider going to say when you present irrelevant qualifications and make reference to postings on a public forum ? You do have PL/EL Insurance don't you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I have notified the Mods that I wish my comments deleted from this thread on the grounds of indemnity. I understood it to be a student project not a commercial contract which was seeking professional advice.Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 Thanks for all the advise guys. The website does need an update majorly, possibly even written by someone who can string a scentence or two together, better than I can. Personally I didn't write / read the page In question, and in hindsight maybe I should have. We do each individually have PLI and Fluxity is just an umbrella name at the moment, when this changes, and Fluxity exists as entity in its own right, then we will add ELI to the mix. Yes my knowledge isn't 100% fully there, but is anyone's. I came on here asking about access not for constructive critism on the website. I also stated a few posts back that any off topic specific points should be PM'd to me, rather than posted in an access topic. Any safety critical work we get signed off or completed by professionals, we do not take forum advice as if it is the word of god, we do take it as a starting point of discussion though. No final decisions would be solely based of forum advice alone. This job is not a commercial contract, and tbh I'm out of here, leaving the entertainment industry. I can find work elsewhere easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerdydd Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 HI "Tom G". I didn't set out to humiliate you..... (Rant Alert) But I am absolutely fed up of students setting up companies and trying to carry out work well above their own ability. I am seeing this more and more of late! In my eyes, unless you have a Rigging Qualification you are not a rigger. Unless you have an electrical qualification, you are not a electrician. (Part P doesn't count).But even with a NRC ticket, without experience you are still a danger. If you want to work in Broadcasting then you need to learn that in TV everyone has their own job, and you don't do someone else's. There is no "Jack of all trades; master of none". Everyone should be a master of their own trade. Obviously some people are better than others but that is life. A racks engineer will never touch lighting....... Lighting will never go near sound. A lighting cameraman slightly different but you see the pattern. I don't know what you mean by a ....multi-skilled Broadcast Engineer", and I seriously hope thats a typo. Be the best at what your going to be. Have fun along the way, but if you want to be a racks engineer for example, give up on rigging and being multi skilled with other departments. Just remember when you finish college/uni you are not an "LD' or a "Sound Designer", you are a drop in the ocean and need to build up to being these things. I find a lot of drama schools/colleges are guilty of sending their students out into the real world ready to be shot down for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Moderation: The mods are currently discussing the reports we have had about this topic. Summing them up they seem to raise these points: After consideration, for the moment we are not going to close the topic or edit any of the posts. Only recently, there was mention of people getting over excited and simply being less pleasant when posting. Please - why not just post nicely, and perhaps consider what you are typing before posting. We are still discussing what, if anything we can do - but for the moment, we are going to allow the topic to continue - but please be warned. From here on - be nice and be careful. Could we also point out that nobody has any right to demand closure or editing of their posts. If you read the forum carefully, you will find a few members who have left permanently - and their posts are still present, although tagged as 'guest' followed by their old username. What you post remains forever. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 HI "Tom G". I didn't set out to humiliate you..... (Rant Alert) But I am absolutely fed up of students setting up companies and trying to carry out work well above their own ability. I am seeing this more and more of late! In my eyes, unless you have a Rigging Qualification you are not a rigger. Unless you have an electrical qualification, you are not a electrician. (Part P doesn't count).But even with a NRC ticket, without experience you are still a danger. If you want to work in Broadcasting then you need to learn that in TV everyone has their own job, and you don't do someone else's. There is no "Jack of all trades; master of none". Everyone should be a master of their own trade. Obviously some people are better than others but that is life. A racks engineer will never touch lighting....... Lighting will never go near sound. A lighting cameraman slightly different but you see the pattern. I don't know what you mean by a ....multi-skilled Broadcast Engineer", and I seriously hope thats a typo. Be the best at what your going to be. Have fun along the way, but if you want to be a racks engineer for example, give up on rigging and being multi skilled with other departments. Just remember when you finish college/uni you are not an "LD' or a "Sound Designer", you are a drop in the ocean and need to build up to being these things. I find a lot of drama schools/colleges are guilty of sending their students out into the real world ready to be shot down for this. The last thing I want to do is join broadcasting, its just not for me any more. I do enjoy the technological side. I understand in the real world I'm just a drop in the ocean, that's why I have been looking at low level jobs to start on from late September. I understand that everyone has there own job, that's why I only work in 1 or 2 roles per event tops. I may have had loads of different roles over the years, but this is how I found out what I'd prefer to do, and am now specialising. NRC is on the cards in a few years but not right now. If you actually met me you would see that I don't know every thing, but I love to learn, love to ask questions and love to ask why, and why is it done this way opposed to another way... Anyways back to my previous post this is all wasted on me now, I'm leaving, finding work in a different industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 In my eyes, unless you have a Rigging Qualification you are not a rigger. Slightly off topic but I entirely disagree with that sentiment. There is only one rigging qualification in the UK - the NRC. This is a privately assembled qualification made for the benefit of some employers, venues etc but is by no means compulsory. This is an arena rigging qualification focussed around installing points and lifting trusses. It includes no work on counterweight rigging, or hemp rigging. Are you saying that theatre riggers who work entirely in the theatre industry with counterweight and hemp sets are not riggers? I think that's a bit harsh. And what about pre-NRC? Were the head riggers at all the UK's venues just "blokes who do some rigging", not "riggers" because they weren't formally qualified? <snip> This job is not a commercial contract, and tbh I'm out of here, leaving the entertainment industry. I can find work elsewhere easily. http://www.sniffpetr...ferraritoys.jpg Chill man, somebody (rightfully) criticising your company website doesn't mean you need to quit your job. The relevant pages of the site have been removed, pending review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_s Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 You're not going to last long in any career if you run away that easily. No one here has personally attacked you, they've given you some constructive (if robust) criticism and very good advice, which you would be silly not to take notice of. If that, to you, is a signal to run away, you won't get far in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 You're not going to last long in any career if you run away that easily. No one here has personally attacked you, they've given you some constructive (if robust) criticism and very good advice, which you would be silly not to take notice of. If that, to you, is a signal to run away, you won't get far in life. Edit to Remove: Last comments. The advice up there is second to none, but in most cases not appropriate for a public forum. I have taken notice of it and removed the offending pages, pending review, also the link to the site has been removed from my signature. I do not know everything, I never will, I'm always learning, and always wishing to learn. I still wish to leave as I'm clearly not welcome in this industry, so bye! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumbles Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 O well is Obvious I'm not wanted in this world :)Don't take it too personally Tom, it's a general feeling that is often exuded by the forum to many members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 You're not going to last long in any career if you run away that easily. No one here has personally attacked you, they've given you some constructive (if robust) criticism and very good advice, which you would be silly not to take notice of. If that, to you, is a signal to run away, you won't get far in life. O well is Obvious I'm not wanted in this world :) <pic removed> O well is Obvious I'm not wanted in this world :)Don't take it too personally Tom, it's a general feeling that is often exuded by the forum to many members... Please read the original post again, I'm just not fast enough at re-tyipng before you two posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.