the kid Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 My H&S fellow sent me this today http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2011/coi-se-0706.htm Rather interesting read, HOWEVER I am confused by the line "The HSE investigation found there was no edge protection at the top of the stairs. Actors, carpenters and other students were at risk of falling while carrying out assembly, decoration and lighting work from the staircase." If assuming protection was going to be used and fitted, HOW would one go about fitting said rails or other such items ? Working close to the edge is going to happen. I have many questions about the whole thing because it seems to say one thing but then add on additional info later the fall is from a stair at the start, but mid way it turns to an "unguarded platform edge at the top of a staircase that formed part of the set." Just to say as well I am not suggesting that HSE are in the wrong, or that it was something that should have been known about but it just seems odd, Or is it me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm not so sure on this one. 2.25m is a fair height to have a platform with a straight drop, and it does seem odd that some kind of banister rail, or other protection wasn't provided. It says it was at the top of a staircase - and a tall staircase does seem the sort of thing that people could indeed slip on? As the details are sketchy, we won't know, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think the report is fairly straightforward in that there were people working at height on top of a stair with nothing to prevent them falling down the other side or (possibly) off the edge of it. What I don't understand is your comment that "Working close to the edge is going to happen." By that I think you mean it can not be avoided but in this case why was a costume designer up there? Why wasn't the work carried out on the floor? Why did they not take precautions against a fall? (restraining harness and barriers are mentioned but they could have said air-bags and much else) The crux of this case is that the school had no "safe system of work" regarding work at height in this instance. In other words they hadn't thought beforehand and a woman ended up paralysed. A touch of common sense and it could have been simply avoided. When this sort of thing happens in a school it raises concerns about the fitness of the staff to have charge of students. I, for one, expect better from teachers and mentors. Working close to the edge IS going to happen, sometimes, but not planning it for safe working is just unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Agree totally with Kerry and Paul. 2.25 is a big drop. What it never mentioned in the report, is what she fell onto or whether it was illuminated or in the dark. This will make a difference obviously. But I totally agree that this could have been avoided in either circumstance and now some poor lady is paralysed from the waist down. Im guessing they will be fined by the HSE and sued by her in the end. One hopes she will be compensated accordingly. @ Kerry, - I did some film work for a show once, and the actors had to be dressed in position otherwise the costumes looked messy, so they walked into position and then the costume supervisor went and made sure it looked perfect, so I can understand why she may have been up there - but do agree, they could have taken precautions in some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 What I don't understand is your comment that "Working close to the edge is going to happen." By that I think you mean it can not be avoided but in this case why was a costume designer up there? Why wasn't the work carried out on the floor? Why did they not take precautions against a fall? (restraining harness and barriers are mentioned but they could have said air-bags and much else) I am talking about directly putting up railings etc. in order to put up railings you need someone to work on an open ended platform to either hold the rails, or move them in position easier... or is it me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 What I don't understand is your comment that "Working close to the edge is going to happen." By that I think you mean it can not be avoided but in this case why was a costume designer up there? Why wasn't the work carried out on the floor? Why did they not take precautions against a fall? (restraining harness and barriers are mentioned but they could have said air-bags and much else) I am talking about directly putting up railings etc. in order to put up railings you need someone to work on an open ended platform to either hold the rails, or move them in position easier... or is it me? But then that would be a person who deals in construction, who would probably have more safety equipment, or even a set of ladders, not a wardrobe designer up the top adjusting a costume just before a film shoot. . In short - its a no brainer. ! They were right to be fined for it. Regardless - even if she shouldn't be up there - its an unsafe environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 A member of the local amateurs in Lowestoft fell off the set during a show - in this case, on purpose as part of the action, but the soft landing one night went wrong - she now directs their shows, from a wheelchair. It has always struck me that people always do mental risk assessments, and probably have done - but the act of putting things on paper kind of focusses the thoughts. Last panto, we had a set of ds portals with balconies either side and apart from the permanent steps offstage, there were a set of motorised treads that would emerge onstage, and allow the turn to walk down onto stage in view. The truck was quite old, from the construction seen from behind. However, the opening, that when the treads were off stage would have allowed a 3m drop, had a chain across the gap - but a much newer feature. My guess is that when first used, the gap was left open. Now, we consider, quite correctly, this is a risk. The actors may well be able to cope with edges, even in the dark - but a dresser, or unfamiliar asm could easily fall - as apparently happened here. An accident, is by nature unplanned. Somebody really should take the responsibility for things like this - and you cannot rely on the performers and technicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Actor / Actress now their director - true Amateur style!! however I guess credit where credit is due for getting up and carrying on! Bet she didn't sue them either! ( could be wrong ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 A skilled (set) builder will take reasoned risks from a position of knowledge and experience, have appropriate PPE, and fall arrest gear as appropriate, AND be concentrating on the hazard at the time. Someone skilled in another industry sector concentrating on their job may not have the same skill and experience at height and need greater protection against potential hazards. Compare a possible risk assessment for Cirque du Soleil and a class of year five children. The different skill and awareness levels change the style of RA and risk and hazard reduction methods. Amateur usually only means unpaid by choice. The skill range available is sometimes greater than in the pro ents industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Actually, she did sue them - and their insurance company dealt with it, and as she's in the wheelchair for life, it was expensive. However, she was able to separate this from her 'hobby' - and just carried on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well Paul - I have nothing but respect for that!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Kid, if the work was placing a guard rail on the edge of a flat roof I suggest that you would consider getting a tower scaff or MEWP, or some other safe working platform. Presumably as this was a school someone there can read and guardrails and edge protection are specifically mentioned in: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/etis19.pdf It even stresses that falls from height need to be considered in an RA, they could not be more direct. Working in a school that means the youngest, least experienced, least trained, least physically and mentally capable person likely to be involved in the work must be considered in that RA. Look for the weakest link, march at the pace of the slowest and if they are not safe, cancel. Gareth A, I would suggest taking a slightly different attitude if you ever have to work with people like Mark Rylance or Steven Berkoff who are actor/directors. Your telling Mr Berkoff that actor cum director was "true Amateur style" would be worth paying to witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 We have Berkoff coming again next season, may just try it ¬_¬. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Presumably as this was a school someone there can read and guardrails and edge protection are specifically mentioned .... This 'School' provides post 18 qualifications up to an MA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 That is what they say they are, Simon. Not being derogatory. To anyone! I am absolutely sure that you have adequate SSoW's and RA's for any practical work, I respect the quality of the courses and the staff at Derby. Richard Limb keeps nagging me to sign up but I am too old. This school has learned the hard way and it worries me about the quality of tuition when the lack of safety awareness is exposed by a serious accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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