Are You Staff or Freelance?

[Ynot]

you will need your own PLIns and PPE too... which will cost you £200 all-in

PPE should cost you more than £200.00, if you're talking Hard Hat, Steelies, Harness, Lanyards with Scaff Hooks, and Gloves.

 

PLI is an average of about £250.00

Maybe BW is talking about Fleabay prices.....

[Smiffy]

Maybe, but I wouldn't be putting my life in the hands of a second hand harness.... I won't even borrow someone else's on those rare occasions when I need to leave the surface!

[paulears]

My PPE is hat, boots and hi vis. Simply what I need to be allowed onto/into areas where I work sometimes. I've got a harness and accessories in the loft, bought in 2005, brand new, and never even been used. I shan't be buying another!

[mumbles]

Even if you don't need a harness for work, I'm still with Smiffy. My toolcase is insured at £600, yes I may have some tools beyond the minimum required, but not loads. My helmet and boots come to over £100, again I could have saved some on them but only by getting uncomfortable ones -when I wear boots for a 14 hour day I couldn't put up with the screwfix £9.95 special. And PLI....I now pay £1200ish as I have lots of extra clauses, and also ELI, but even when I first started freelancing basic PLI was a good £175 or more.

 

All in all it's a lot more than £200 to invest to get yourself to a point where you can reasonably claim to operate as a proper self-employed 'freelancer'. If you already own everything, then it becomes a lot more palatable amount of money, but if you just do cassie/full time work then it's a huge investment unless you hav a long string of work to fund it.

 

M

[goboloco]

What am I , or what is my title within This industry I often wonder. I work with my family and own a small share of the family business which includes a nightclub.

 

While being a tech minded person , I never heard about DMX untill I had 20 moving heads on a pallet from Martin sitting there looking at me .

 

I assisted the riggers and lighting programmer - to the point of doing 120dmx solders myself - and since I'm an x weight lifter - I hauled up the martins to truss level myself - fitted all the g clamps , and double safety cabled each fixture .

 

They of course directed me and checked my work for insurance compliance .

 

I also put I'n the system I'n our club , similar story as above . Right down to the XLR solders and ev dc-one . The lot .

 

Over the last 2 years I have repaired faderz on my azure ,programmed my own shows , added lasers and mapped projections on my own .

 

However / with no formal training or Certs , what the he'll am I ?

 

I have done lights and visuals for goldfish Get the blessing , and Mitch winehouse . All cause I seem to have the ability to become the visual metaphor for any music I hear .....

 

 

I wonder - if I go off to avo and do training on a pearl or Titan , am I then a qualified lampy ?

[paulears]

You missed the point - this topic is about status withe the HMRC as arbiter - not about your job title. You are clearly an employee of the company, assuming it's Ltd. If it's a partnership, the you are self-employed. I can't see a club being anything other than a Ltd company. So if you get regular pay from the company, you're an employee - even if you have shares in the business, and like the title Director. If you want a job title - if you are family, then technical director seems to fit. Many venues have a technical manager who is the line manager for the people who 'do' - some have no actual technical skills at all, and if they spend time rostering, doing the hours and calculating the recharges, it doesn't matter if they haven't a clue how to programme a Mac?

[azlan]

I'm a full time student, but also work on a casual contract at our students union venue to pay the bills and put food on the table (my student loan just about covers rent where I live) and tend to work anywhere from 1-5 nights in a week depending on how busy the venue is (although 2 nights a week is probably a reasonable average). I also do some promotion work, although that is strictly a hobby so I do not consider myself an 'industry professional' yet, although once my degree is finished (in computer science rather than a theatre course) I plan to try life as a freelancer for several years

[goboloco]

You missed the point - this topic is about status withe the HMRC as arbiter - not about your job title. You are clearly an employee of the company, assuming it's Ltd. If it's a partnership, the you are self-employed. I can't see a club being anything other than a Ltd company. So if you get regular pay from the company, you're an employee - even if you have shares in the business, and like the title Director. If you want a job title - if you are family, then technical director seems to fit. Many venues have a technical manager who is the line manager for the people who 'do' - some have no actual technical skills at all, and if they spend time rostering, doing the hours and calculating the recharges, it doesn't matter if they haven't a clue how to programme a Mac?

 

 

thank you for clearing that up for me. sorry for hijacking the thread. "technical director" might be a bit strong, as I also am the guy who unblockes the toliets when theres a problem at 4 in the morning.

"earn your stripes" they told me 20 years ago;)

[kerry davies]

Gobo, welcome to the world of live events! Unblocking drains and dealing with the toilets problems when all others run away home places you way above many others in my esteem.

If you want to call yourself technical director then you have my full support. I am a one-man band and call myself "proprietor" so someone with part ownership of the business can do what he likes. I also like your families attitude.

[blackwaterduncan]

What am I , or what is my title within This industry I often wonder. I work with my family and own a small share of the family business which includes a nightclub.

 

While being a tech minded person , I never heard about DMX untill I had 20 moving heads on a pallet from Martin sitting there looking at me .

 

I assisted the riggers and lighting programmer - to the point of doing 120dmx solders myself - and since I'm an x weight lifter - I hauled up the martins to truss level myself - fitted all the g clamps , and double safety cabled each fixture .

 

They of course directed me and checked my work for insurance compliance .

 

I also put I'n the system I'n our club , similar story as above . Right down to the XLR solders and ev dc-one . The lot .

 

Over the last 2 years I have repaired faderz on my azure ,programmed my own shows , added lasers and mapped projections on my own .

 

However / with no formal training or Certs , what the he'll am I ?

 

I have done lights and visuals for goldfish Get the blessing , and Mitch winehouse . All cause I seem to have the ability to become the visual metaphor for any music I hear .....

 

 

I wonder - if I go off to avo and do training on a pearl or Titan , am I then a qualified lampy ?

 

Ahem, Grasshopper! to clarify, the PA system was installed predominantly by my good self, I also designed it. As is often the case, the venue has evolved and so has the application of the equipment. This has resulted in you gaining valuable practical experience in derigging, repairing, reprogramming of system processors, speakers etc. Given that formal qualification is often lacking in our industry, (particularly amongst those of us old enough to remember the days pre all things digital)very often our CV is all we've got. While I am sure it is not your intention, the above post could lead a person to believe you had installed the PA. Just a gentle nudge from an elder lemon http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[goboloco]

there are 2 p.a.'s in that building now duncan, micky mouse in comparision,but I take full credit for the second install;)

 

with regards to the main p.a.. I seem to remember a lot of Lonley nights on ladders doing speakons, and your smiling face the next morning when I had worked on through . I have replaced drivers , voice coils ,re-eqd the building a dozen times , installed a completely different p.a and dj booth I'n the garden , then the outside{front} speakers /Amps .I have replaced cross faders on xone92, and replaced 5 faders on my azure. I personally re adressed the common earth issue with the electrical contractors, putting in a seperate fuse board and clean line to the dj box, and wiped out the need for any d.I's.

As well as carrying half of the stuff ( with you ) from the wearhouse to your van and then into the venue itself.

 

 

 

However - your right and just I'n case you feel unappreciated - you designed And spec'd the main system(and its a thing of wonder and beauty} .I was only the whipping boy .BUT............... credit were credit is due / I did a LOT of the work, which was a fair exchange for what I learned from you obi wan- I am, and forever will be greatfull .

 

I wont even bring up the fact that I personally modified every truss light bracket with a grinder, when it turned out they were wrong,photos to prove;) {lighting issue I know}

So yeah, I think I should have a cert of some kind...

[paulears]

Moderation: Please take the bickering about who did what to a more private channel - we really don't mind who did what, even though it's clear you two do. It's somewhat childish trying to score points off who carried pieces of kit from the warehouse. Personally, I'd call the winner the one who got paid most, for the least work! As a general rule, we don't let posts get personal, and if you wish to fight, do it somewhere else, please!

Paul

mods

[goboloco]

sorry paul, didint mean to hijack the thread, feel free to delete any un relevent posts I have made.

[David Ripley]

HMRC definition of Self Employed here

 

The bit to particularly note is 'can decide what to do, where to provide their services, when to work and how they do their work'

 

Are many technical staff really freelance using the above definition? I would doubt most could answer yes to each of the four questions.

 

For example: Where to provide their services - Can I decide to work at home as say, a lighting tech during production week? No? - PAYE

When to work - Can I decide which days of a production or tour I'm working on? No? - PAYE

 

I have heard, anecdotally of people, previously working on a regular freelance basis being put onto PAYE as, using the above criteria, they are employees.

 

Undoubtedly HMRC will try and get most onto PAYE as it's easier for them. Conversely SE is not much fun when you are paying tax upfront on what you might earn in the next tax year. In effect I'm lending the government money!

 

David

[Shez]

Where to provide their services - Can I decide to work at home as say, a lighting tech during production week? No? - PAYE

How about a domestic plumber - can they decide to repair your burst pipe in their own home? Of course not. They can, however, choose whether to take on that job, just as the lighting tech can. By your logic, every self employed tradesman would be PAYE, which clearly doesn't pan out. The crux of the question is in choosing which jobs to take on. Several of my colleagues in my day job can choose whether to work in the office or from home but they're very much PAYE. But they don't get much choice in the work that they actually have to do in whichever location - that's the differentiating factor.