Radio Mics for schools

[tomo2607]

Every year the school puts on a show. This is my first year working at this school and were looking at things in a different way.

Usually, ive been told, a sound engineer is hired for the 3 day run plus 2days rehearsal. Bare in mind that we are not well equipped. Ive been told this costs the school around £800 - £1000 based on the the time of the engineer and the equipment hire... This includes the use of upto 8 radio mics, mixing desk and a few other things for effects playback...

 

Well, this year things are a little different. During my employment I have purchased a new mixing desk capable of running the show from, a mac book pro and an audio license for Qlab. This leaves me short of just the microphones. Ive been trying to source radio mics either for hire or for purchase within the budget of the usual sound engineer costs. if I could purchase up to 8 radio mics then that would be a huge saving for coming years. But here's where im a little stuck. I dont really know what im looking for.:blink:

 

What im asking is... can any body point me in the right direction? whats best to look for and what to avoid. whether its best to purchase a license for radio mic use or to find radio mics that work on free frequencies etc.

The mics need to be a lapel type rather than hand held. We are looking for a minimum of 4 but up to 8 depending on cost and have a budget of around £800 - £1000

 

Im not looking for something amazing, just something that will meet our low expectations, however I don't think the likes of fixed frequency maplin specials will cut it :huh:

[spartacus]

Hi,

We've gone through a very similar process. Minus the QLab, it is almost identical.

 

In looking at options, the first year under the new scheme all radio mics were hired for the major school performance of that year (8-10 from memory). However, during the year, every other performance in the hall seemed to want radio headset mics so four headsets and belt packs were purchased to work with our existing wireless receivers for handheld mics (this could be another consideration for you). Cheap doesn't seem to be much good as the will get dropped and then stomped and danced on and then someone will run off stage with it dragging behind them.

 

For the big shows once or twice a year, whatever is needed is hired as the cost in purchasing them can't be justified plus it gives you a bit of leeway if there are any problems in that you can always call the hire company and ask them (nicely) to get a replacement.

 

 

This was all in Australia so I can't give you any infomation regarding cost but with a rough estimate, I doubt your budget would be able to purchase 8 radio headsets + beltpacks + recievers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomo2607]

thanks for the reply. I know im pushing it with 8 but that is the maximum were hoping to purchase. we can manage with 4 and swap between cast but im really trying to prevent this if at all possible <_<

[Shez]

For any more than four you'll need a licence, which is currently £75 per year but is likely to go up over the next couple of years. Hiring will cost you from about £45 per channel per week and should include the licence. I'd look at perhaps buying four that will cover most events across the year and hiring in for the bigger show however many extras you need.

Having said that, £1000 won't get you four good systems. Ideally, you'd buy the same type of system that you could hire locally so that you know what you're dealing with and have some degree of compatibility with the mic capsules / headsets. Sennheiser's freeport system would be the absolute minimum level I'd look at in that price range.

[revbobuk]

Shez is mostly right - except, of course, that you could go for the Line6 2.4GHz systems, which are also licence-free, and can run up to 12 systems.

 

You can run 4 Ch. 70 systems without a licence, and then hire in extra Ch. 38 systems if you need more. Between the likes of the Freeport/Trantec S4 systems and the G3 systems come things like the JTS range, and a racked and ready set (Ch. 38) using 4 of the US-1000 is available. But not for £1000!

[paulears]

All the time I was teaching in college, and advising schools and colleges on technical equipment, it was very rare to be able to make a case for buying radio mics - simply because usage is low, breakages high, and licensing based on paying for a year for a few weeks a year's use. If the funds are there, then buy kit - but the places I know, never had 'quite' enough so compromises need to be made. Four radio systems is a bit pointless, and is complicated by the fact that you still need to hire in compatible equipment when you need more.

 

Radio systems are still less reliable than a bit of cable, and need technical 'looking after' to make sure they perform well.

 

As many schools and colleges are doing bigger and bigger shows, 12-16 seems more an more common - and rarely work very well due to operator and student issues. I was due to visit a school for a days training ready for their 16 radio mic hire in a couple of weeks. However, they have no money for this training, so will do what they always do - preset the faders when the system is set up, and then get the kids to turn on and off the packs as they make their entrances and exits. The result could be described as painful. Painful and very stressful for the teachers too - because they just don't realise these things just don't work like this!

 

I appreciate that the way school budgets work it's often easier to get four grand one year, than a grand a year for four years.

 

I'd suggest (despite having some myself) that the Line 6 system may not be good for schools - although wi-fi networks don't cause IT and problems, the radio system wipes out the network in a large area of the school - so the laptops in the area suddenly can't get on the network, or they work really slowly.

[Simon Lewis]

Sennheiser G3 should be able to achieve 6 units in the free to use slice of channel 70, but they aren't the cheapest units...

[ojc123]

In our school we have four UHF Trantec 4.4 and four VHF Trantec 3.5. This has worked fine for us so far. We are quite a distance from any other likely users so we've never had any interference. The VHF had handheld transmitters but we got some KAM VHF beltpack transmitters for not much from CPC. Pulse headsets from CPC complete the package. I've never had much problem with dropout from any of the systems. Only trained student technicians get to use them and actors are trained before using them. The beauty of owning the setup is that the students can get to know how to use it and to get the best out of it. If equipment is hired in then the students spend time learning how to make it work rather than using it creatively.

 

It wasn't expensive to buy (about 8 years ago) and has proved very reliable. They use 9v batteries which are a bit more expensive than AA batteries. The VHF systems are in almost daily use. It isn't professional quality but we aren't professionals. It works quite well enough for our purposes.

 

Trantec VHF systems seem to be thin on the ground these days but other manufacturers are available.

 

I'm hoping the combination remains viable after 2012 but time will tell.

[Ynot]

On a side issue but one related to the topic...

 

I've recently been doing some work with a local school, and am sort of their on-call tech when they need the occasional kit change or lanterns hanging etc. Before the last show I did for them in November last year I had 4 of their radio mics in for assessment as they were having problems. Their 4 Senn G1 EW100s were fine but these were Wharfedale hand mics if I recall right - and basically I could only get 2 of them working. At the same time I asked them about their licence and whether they were planning for the inevitable loss of ch 69, but as I expected I had the feedback that whilst they thought they had been licenced, nobody knew if it was still valid, borne out by the fact they knew nowt about the trade-in options.

 

So I advised them that they needed to START to think about how to replace them by next year.

 

I then get a call yesterday from an ex-pupil there (who was one oftheir student 'techs' occasionally works at my theatre) saying that he'd been asked to install 4 new mic systems in their rack... These 4 new mics were of a cheap and tacky type, and were most definitely in the ch69 band, so they have a little over 12 months' valid use in them...

The cynic in me suspects they were perhaps sold by a supplier trying to get shot of ch 69 kit ahead of 2012...

 

It just goes to show how wrong schools can get it when they don't seek (or in fact heed) the advice of those with experience.

I'm doing 2 shows for them this November and next Feb, and will be politely remonstrating them for their lack of sensible purchasing...

 

 

[graemeftv]

pm sent

[tomo2607]

Thanks very much for all the replies. Ill have a read in a minute

graemeftv:

Ill have a read in a minute

 

 

 

As for the cost, I knew id be pushing it a little but I thought id ask. We do have quite a lot of events during the year that would benefit from having the possibility to use radio mics. We also hire out the main performance space and various equipment during the summer for lectures and performances that could potentially be interested in hiring the radio systems to help gain some of the initial spend.

Again, thanks for the input, its given me plenty to contemplate over...

[paulears]

ah - you missed that very important feature out. If the equipment can be used for income generation, then that's a very different matter. However - it's also a good excuse to get them to spend more. If you buy cheap stuff, you won't be able to hire it, as people who 'know' will reject yours in favour of hiring in proper reliable, quality ones!

[Junior8]

You know I'm beginning to wonder just how we managed in the past - oh yes I think it was called projection!

[Bobbsy]

Partly projection, yes.

 

However, there's a bigger issue. People, pampered by PA systems and constant music in ear buds, have lost the ability to listen. Frankly, I don't think students projected much better in the past--I know my kids didn't back in the 1980s when they started school--but the people in the audience have much higher expectations of being "spoon fed" their audio rather than keeping quiet and still and struggling to hear every word.

 

It's not just audiences...what band doesn't demand monitors now? Yet back when I was a teenager, even the biggest bands just used backline and put vocals on a PA--monitors were unheard of yet everyone from our local bands up to the Beatles managed without wedges or IEMs. They just listened to each other.

 

Bob

[timtheenchanteruk]

Having worked in a school, and the associated chaos, I would say hire radiomics, unless you need them for 4 or 5 times a year, it simply is not worth the hassle keeping them safe, in working order etc etc, at our place the kids really did go through mics, didnt seem to matter if they were £5 CPCs or £150 mics, they still managed to destroy on average 3 a week for a show run, it didn't seem to matter how much "eduacation" they (students AND staff) had about their use, in the end we had none.

On the flip side, if they are schools mics, getting replacement mics is like pulling teeth, whereas if they are hired, and damaged needs to be paid for, suddenly money is there, and things are kept a better eye on by other people involved.