Lanterns and dimmers for 10m by 6m stage

[JSalisbury]

A local amature group has just moved into a new venue in an old church. The stage is about 10m by 6, and the existing lighting system needs to be replaced. At the moment there is a single 32A blue socket on a 30mA RCD. I am looking for suggestions for cheap dimmer packs, control desks and lanterns. What would people suggest. from the new and second hand markets. The building presently has a 60A supply, but does have an unused 100A 3 phase white meter installation, so could get extra power in the future.

 

Thanks

[J Pearce]

Our stage at work is 12m x 6m, so pretty similar. 32A is gonna be very tight for any decent level of illumination using halogen fixtures. I use 12 650W fresnels for facelight, which is most of your 32A gone... You might get away with less, but I find it either gets a bit dim or you lose the ability to divide the stage up (I have our rig zoned to DSL,DSC,DSR,USL,USC,USL, in a McCandless-esque cold/warm setup).

 

Whats your trim height for the rig? That makes a big difference! Our rig sits at 5m above stage.

 

If you did all your facelight with halogen and then did saturated top/back/sides with led you might get away with, but I suspect making use of that 100A 3phase will be cheaper than a sufficient stock of decent reliable led units.

[pritch]

I'm with Jon; don't plan on squeezing something in to your 32A and upgrading to the three phase at a later date. Go for the full thing now, rather than trying to get by on inadequate power.

[dwright2104]

The 32A Single Phase, is quite ofter used for sound Power.

 

If its a Removable install, get the 100A 3 phase installed to PowerLock connectors.

[david.elsbury]

Powerlock connectors??? That seems somewhat over the top to me. What's wrong with a 125A Ceeform connector? Or a distribution board which splits to either 2x 63A or 4x 32A?

 

I could be wrong with my understanding of the UK situation, but I was under the impression that Powerlock was supposed to be used by trained people as it's very easy to stick a finger into a connector?

[Simon Lewis]

Camlocks have this wonderful feature, but Powerlocks should have protected front ends.

However, they are usually 400A single pole disconnects - a slightly OTT solution for a smallish venue?

[Brian]

It's basic maths time...

 

amateur + old church ≠ powerlock

[rossmck]

I was involved with a similar venue - we ended up with 3x 63A sockets (breakered at 32A, but the dimmers were usually hired/borrowed and had 63A tails )

 

If it's a permanent venue then you may wish to consider hardwired dimmer packs - which does away with the sockets entirely - you don't say what's already in place ? are there IWBs you could reuse? could you re-use any of the existing lighting stock?

 

Second hand lanterns bought from a reputable source shouldn't give you any problem - might look a little worn compared to brand new ones but no-one's looking at the lanterns ; ). If you're on a budget you could do a lot worse than consider some of the "lower end" dimmers (The Showtec Dim-Master 6 and Strand SD6 are virtually identical and have the same OEM) which tend to cost a fraction of the price and, in my experience, are just as reliable although if you shop around you'll get good deals on the major branded kit too - Betapack 3s seem to have become the defacto standard in venues like yours.

 

Similar venues to what you describe always seem to have some form of Frog as the control desk - I'm not their biggest fan personally but they're easy to learn, easy to use and quite flexible. You might also want to consider some of the ETC SmartFade range, I've been quite impressed with them..

[JSalisbury]

The current "dimmer" consists of several domestic wall plate dimmers that have been taken apart and placed in a wooden box with control knobs that are mecarno wheels. The output of this dimmer is then taken to several indvidual sockets in an Oulson 13A socket distribution board. The dimmer is fed from a single 13A socket.

 

The exisitng lighting stock consists of various lanterns includeing two 500 w securtity lights of the type that do not have safety glass. I have refused to use the above dimmer and also would like comments on the lanterns. Some of the other lanterns look like sometihing that dates back to the 50's.

 

I am thinking it might be an idea to ask Lancelyn for their views on the lighting bars themsleves, I know what the comments will be regarding the dimmer.

[sguy42]

The current "dimmer" consists of several domestic wall plate dimmers that have been taken apart and placed in a wooden box with control knobs that are mecarno wheels. The output of this dimmer is then taken to several indvidual sockets in an Oulson 13A socket distribution board. The dimmer is fed from a single 13A socket.

 

The exisitng lighting stock consists of various lanterns includeing two 500 w securtity lights of the type that do not have safety glass. I have refused to use the above dimmer and also would like comments on the lanterns. Some of the other lanterns look like sometihing that dates back to the 50's.

 

I am thinking it might be an idea to ask Lancelyn for their views on the lighting bars themsleves, I know what the comments will be regarding the dimmer.

 

Feel free to post some pictures or model numbers here (or pm me) for comments suggestions on the older lanterns, some are still usable, some less so, & failing that you could always ebay them to generate some funds.

 

Appologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs... There are a number of H & S issues with older lanterns principally to do with earthing & asbestos but these are resolvable,

 

Shane

[JSalisbury]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the offer, could you take a look at and let me know what you think?

 

 

Thanks

[musht]

Hmm Prinztronic, one of Dixons own brands back in the day, like the Meccano wheels , master with an elastic band...

 

The JVC quad amp with joystick panning has got to raise some funds on Ebay ;-)

 

Would look at the bar mounting first and get someone to give you written advice on SWL...

 

Fresnels always seem useable if you can get a halogen conversion to fit, S/H small fresnels are constantly in demand.Though difficult to get scale are they 4", 6" or even 8" across the lens?

 

But by the time you convert, re-wire, repaint and PAT may just be as well shopping at Used Lighting or Thomann, depends on time and skills available, lots of volunteers, great, just you in the shed, get the treasurer to lever open the kitty..

[paulears]

The Patt. 263 (the banana shaped profile) were pretty good, but used a very long lamp, that's a bit expensive now - there are kits available to extend the base to a different one fits, but although they're not a bad lantern for the 60s/early 70s - they are very narrow. Probably not worth spending money on - and the mains cable looks suspiciously like the original asbestos one!

 

The TV style fresnels could be worth doing up - probably a good scrub and a repaint externally, new modern cable and a clean inside may well produce something that functions fine. The little minim is quiet effective and are still found in schools frequently. Nothing in them to cause trouble.

The sheet metal style profiles will probably not be worth even buying a lamp for. Never bright when new, again, hardly worth doing up.

 

So I'd do the fresnels up and get shot of the profiles - do check the wiring inside - some look like they may have pvc cable, and this isn't good inside - it goes rock hard and cracks - exposing the conductors when you move the focus. So they may well pass a test on flood setting and go bang when you attempt to spot them down - and that is always scary at the top of the steps!

[JSalisbury]

Hmm Prinztronic, one of Dixons own brands back in the day, like the Meccano wheels , master with an elastic band...

 

The JVC quad amp with joystick panning has got to raise some funds on Ebay ;-)

 

Would look at the bar mounting first and get someone to give you written advice on SWL...

 

Fresnels always seem useable if you can get a halogen conversion to fit, S/H small fresnels are constantly in demand.Though difficult to get scale are they 4", 6" or even 8" across the lens?

 

But by the time you convert, re-wire, repaint and PAT may just be as well shopping at Used Lighting or Thomann, depends on time and skills available, lots of volunteers, great, just you in the shed, get the treasurer to lever open the kitty..

 

Hi,

The Prinztronic is the dimmer, it has been gutted and some kind of home brew dimmer fitted within, hence the lables on the front!

 

The Patt. 263 (the banana shaped profile) were pretty good, but used a very long lamp, that's a bit expensive now - there are kits available to extend the base to a different one fits, but although they're not a bad lantern for the 60s/early 70s - they are very narrow. Probably not worth spending money on - and the mains cable looks suspiciously like the original asbestos one!

 

The TV style fresnels could be worth doing up - probably a good scrub and a repaint externally, new modern cable and a clean inside may well produce something that functions fine. The little minim is quiet effective and are still found in schools frequently. Nothing in them to cause trouble.

The sheet metal style profiles will probably not be worth even buying a lamp for. Never bright when new, again, hardly worth doing up.

 

So I'd do the fresnels up and get shot of the profiles - do check the wiring inside - some look like they may have pvc cable, and this isn't good inside - it goes rock hard and cracks - exposing the conductors when you move the focus. So they may well pass a test on flood setting and go bang when you attempt to spot them down - and that is always scary at the top of the steps!

 

Hi,

 

The mains lead on the 263 appears to be a rubber flex, with cores green/yellow, brown and black!

[Junior8]

The Patt 263 is a one-off in that in use it appears to be upside down ie the cable comes out of the top of the lamphouse. By the looks of your picture and the frame runners, if it has the original lampholder someone has at some time inverted the lens tube.

 

To be frank I can't place the Fresnels though Furse made something along the same lines in the fifties branded as the Frenca but the focusing knob was on the back. I'd go along with Paul on them as they appear from the pix to be a rugged item - but you'd need to check whether conversion was possible at all.

 

My gut instinct however - assuming you 1) you own or control the space and b) are going to use the space long term - would be to bin the lot and invest in suspensions and wiring infrastructure first and hire equipment in buying as funds permit.