d.breeze Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hello, I really hope someone here can provide a solution, I'm starting to lose my temper. I've been soldering up a load of jack cables, some for guitar amps some simply for instrument signal cable, the jumbo jack plugs and speaker cables soldered perfectly, no issues. BUT the solder is refusing to stick to the jack plugs I'm using for the instrument cable. Sticks to the copper core of the cable fine but not the plugs. I'm using neutrik's standard jack plugs, van damme tour grade instrument cable and a 60/40 solder alloy. Soldering iron is a 25W Antex without thermostatic control. Can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald463 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Terminals need to be hot enough for solder to flow and flux to melt.I have found that Neutrik connectors need a powerful soldering iron to heat up quickly enough without affect the plastic.If you are sure that everything is clean then try a more powerful iron (or larger tip size) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.breeze Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Terminals need to be hot enough for solder to flow and flux to melt.I have found that Neutrik connectors need a powerful soldering iron to heat up quickly enough without affect the plastic.If you are sure that everything is clean then try a more powerful iron (or larger tip size) I have flux, but I am ashamed to admit I have no idea how to use it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinE Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Agreed, the Neutrik 1/4in jacks in particular will need a big iron to sweat the cables on, they act like a giant heatsink to a dinky iron like the 25W antex. Try to borrow something bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.breeze Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Agreed, the Neutrik 1/4in jacks in particular will need a big iron to sweat the cables on, they act like a giant heatsink to a dinky iron like the 25W antex. Try to borrow something bigger. Any idea why the neutriks behave like that? the speaker cables had massive switchcraft jacks on that were about 3 times the sizes of the neutriks and worked fine... Silly question, will using a 15w and a 25 iwon at the same time be of any benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The flux is IN the solder - tiny little tubes of it within the solder itself. Solder shouldn't 'stick' it needs to flow - it's not really like glue - if you dab the iron on and try to glue the wire on, you'll get blobs and they are rubbish joints, waiting to fail. The biggest surface - as in the plug needs to have the contact point heated, so it can be tinned - i.e. a light thin coat of molten solder - then you tin the wire you are going to attach - heat up the big surface, so when you touch it with the tinned ends of the cable, the solder on both surfaces flows, and the joint is made. Since they messed around with the lead content, you need more heat, and as everyone has said, sometimes it's really difficult to get the joint hot enough for the solder to flow properly. Also worth noting that enough heat to melt the solder often melts the cheap insulation on cheapo connectors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.breeze Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 The flux is IN the solder - tiny little tubes of it within the solder itself. Solder shouldn't 'stick' it needs to flow - it's not really like glue - if you dab the iron on and try to glue the wire on, you'll get blobs and they are rubbish joints, waiting to fail. The biggest surface - as in the plug needs to have the contact point heated, so it can be tinned - i.e. a light thin coat of molten solder - then you tin the wire you are going to attach - heat up the big surface, so when you touch it with the tinned ends of the cable, the solder on both surfaces flows, and the joint is made. Since they messed around with the lead content, you need more heat, and as everyone has said, sometimes it's really difficult to get the joint hot enough for the solder to flow properly. Also worth noting that enough heat to melt the solder often melts the cheap insulation on cheapo connectors! Does that mean you think neutriks are cheap connectors? What then is the point of 25w (and lower powered) soldering irons if they're not hot enough? Why have I had no trouble soldering XLRs and jacks until now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyandi Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 As Paul mentions Neutrik Jacks do require a lot of heat. They are not cheap & will outlast all other sorts of jacks I have ever used. Make sure also that you are not holding the jack in something metalic that will transfer the heat away as this will increase the heat up time also. If you are using crock clip attachments to hold the jack put some sleeves over the crock clips to help. For the screen espcially after tinning the iron tip, it will take quite a few seconds to transfer enough heat into the jack, to allow you to form a pool of solder which you can then put your tinned screen into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 No, Neutriks are not necessarily "cheap" just more conductive metal than a 'ickle jack. As my girlfriends keep saying, size DOES matter. Same for soldering irons as my tacking hammer for cabling and my 10lb sledge for marquees. Right tool for the job. Again, like my girlfriends say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Ok, incase its technique that is the problem.. Preparation is everything! Get the jack lodged in something to hold it, eg a cable tester, a vice (light preasure!!) etc...First of all, clean the tip of the soldering iron on a damp sponge (if you want to be pedantic use distilled water, its better for the longevity of the tip), A quick brush, with the tip pointed away from you, pulling it back towards you should be all you need. The clean tip will prevent gunk from preventing heat transfer.Then add a spot of solder to the tip of the iron.Tin the wire (this is solder the tip of bare wire). Touch the wire with that wet part of the iron and add solder to the opposed side of the wire. Just enough that the cores of the wire should disappear, it should not be a "ball" of solder.If you don't do this it will not stick, or be far slower to stick as you will need to add a lot more solder when you do connect the cable to the terminal.Cut the tinned wire to its desired length. Clean the iron again, then add another dot of solder.Make contact with the jack's terminal using that spot. not the actual tip of the iron.make contact with more solder at the point where you have wet solder between the iron tip and the terminal... it will then spread from there.. You NEED that "wet" solder to act like a conductor of heat, if you dont it will take a LOT longer and be messier. During this stage, you should be able to keep the iron in one place and move the solder to where you want it to fill.. If you are well prepared and practiced, at this moment you can push the wire into the terminal you have just prepared, If not, don't be upset to stop, get yourself ready, re"ball" the tip of the iron and go in again to add the wire..pull the iron back and just hold the wire still for a second... You will notice a change in texture from silvery to dull when it has hardened. If you took too long, you will find that there is a lot of residual heat and will take a long time to harden, in this case give it a quick blow and it will harden. I have to explain this many times at work and in my RC flying club... one day I will make a youtube video on it. Again, main point, its all in preparation, clean the tip, solder the tip of iron, use that as heat conductor, and have the wire tinned and ready before you think about the connector.NO PHYSICAL PRESSURE IS NEEDED ON THE IRON. The harder you push, will not help it melt!! It will only succeed in bending the tip, causing micro-fractures, preventing heat transfer, causing you to push harder..... This technique works perfectly with my JBC 11W iron I use at home and on site (got a proper desk iron at work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Just to add - I use a 25W Antex iron on Neutrik connectors of all kinds and find that it is plenty hot enough. I would go with 'technique' here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I didn't have any trouble today with my 25W Antex iron on Neutrik jacks. I have a block of wood with a set of D panel mount connectors in it for a jig and I use a proper lead solder. Colin seems to pretty comprehensively describe how I'd achieve a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlyfarly Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you are well prepared and practiced, at this moment you can push the wire into the terminal you have just prepared, If not, don't be upset to stop, get yourself ready, re"ball" the tip of the iron and go in again to add the wire..pull the iron back and just hold the wire still for a second... You will notice a change in texture from silvery to dull when it has hardened. If you took too long, you will find that there is a lot of residual heat and will take a long time to harden, in this case give it a quick blow and it will harden. Not a good idea to blow on solder to speed up hardening, it causes microscopic fractures and other disturbances in the solder joint. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Soldering irons that have been mistreated often have all sorts of crud between the metal tip and the heating element rod they're shoved on to - if the tip doesn't make good contact, then heat transfer is poorer, and once you 'suck' the heat out trying to heat up large lumps of metal they're working right on the limit. For fine work, I used to be quite happy with a small 15W iron, if the tip was in good nick - for anything less than the biggest jobs, when I'd drag out the big Weller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It's been alluded to here already but one MAJOR thing to remember when soldering is care of the tool itself. As Paul mentioned above, it's easy to get bits of crap on the tip, including melted insulation, all of which reduces the efficiency of the heat transfer. If the iron starts to blacken, then wipe it on some steel wool to a) lose the crap and b) lose the excess solder. A clean iron is an effective iron. Every now and then it pays to revitalise the tip by heating it up, getting rid of all the molten glump, then giving it a rub (when you've let it go COLD, of course!) with some fine emery paper. Take the tip down to the bare metal BUT make sure that before you start using it again that you tim the bit properly first. Oh - and a BIG plus 1 for NOT blowing on a soldered joint. Not only will it risk those micro-fractures, it can also mean the solder dries too quickly and results in the joint as a whole becoming weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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