going to uni

[w/robe]

Ken

 

Mountview's technical course has been a degree course for many a year now. It is still a 2 year course and does have more than a passing resemblance to the technical course which it replaced. I would say the main difference is that the students are now encouraged more to look at why they are doing things and to reflect on what they have done.

[kitlane]

You may discover the web info is more "recent" than stuff taught at Uni. This does not include the fundamental stuff such as the tending and care of decibels, which will always be the same, or, how colours "work" via additive or subtractive mixing, but, possibly RDM for example.

 

Just gave the last in my series of lectures on RDM this morning.

 

Kit Lane

Lecturer in Sound, Light & Live Event Technology, University of Derby

[ramdram]

I'm glad I said "may" and "possibly RDM for example", ** laughs out loud **.

[paulears]

Personally, I like to understand the things I do from the perspective of how and why they do the things they do. I don't really have much time for people without the inquisitive streak. Analysis and evaluative skills are really essential in my view. How well a tool works, or more often perhaps how they don't and why is very important for making correct decisions. Over the years people pick these skills up gradually, but getting used to doing the groundwork early really pays off.

 

Somebody who learns by repeating other people's practices may never appreciate quite why they do them? Watching a decent LD light a show won't help you do it unless you can analyse what it was they did, and evaluate who well it did it. Then you have the skills to translate some of their ideas into your own if they are appropriate.

[kerry davies]

It seems a strange topic really when my most revered LD studied scenic design under an acknowledged design master who was primarily a sculptor. He wasn't a technician and still is not, though the ALD seems to appreciate his work.

 

There seems to be a compromise concensus emerging that for the vast majority of working situations in which we find ourselves, some form of work experience/academic balance should be achieved. There was a means of doing this with block-release or sandwich course schemes but the freelance nature of industry employment mitigates against this solution. Until employers invest in training, and can do so without the fear of those attaining end-results upping sticks to work for or become competitors, it is not going to happen. Wales Milennium Centre has made a start with apprenticeships, Congo5 has one at college in Chichester and a few Rock PA companies have sandwich type posts, but it needs to be more widespread.

 

In the case of the OP there is only one answer and that is academia, he has after all been an MD since he was 10, offers 14 year-olds work experience and runs his own hire company. Nothing said here will influence him in the slightest.

 

On the general topic a lot depends on HMRC and their efforts to get rid of bogus self-employment and the freelance ethos. Several companies in rock touring now employ rather than contract and theatre, conservative as it is, will be forced to follow. The snobbery of theatre will however take some getting over and the elitist nature of graduate company owners and managers, who employ fellow arts graduates at a fraction of their own wages, needs a massive culture-shift to enable change. The disgrace of council owned theatre bosses making wholesale clearouts of staff to avoid employment regulations whilst maintaining superior "artistic" demeanour has to stop. So has using formerly good technical support courses as profitable income streams for drama colleges who now train far too many for industry to absorb.

 

To quote one WNCMD graduate working at the top of the rock touring game; "I wish I had become an electrician. I wouldn't have all this debt, would be better prepared for my work and would be able to make a buck between tours." It may make one feel superior to hold a degree but, as lots of graduates are discovering, it don't pay the rent.

[themadhippy]

some form of work experience/academic balance should be achieved.

And is not abused by venues who see it as a cheap source of labour,nor use by the cival servantrs to keep the youth unemployment figures artifiacaly low

[ramdram]

Ref Kerry's post, para 3, all this discussion may be moot as we don't know if the OP has got any A levels yet...or has found a place...once he has decided what course he wants to follow.

 

It may be the OP has to settle for not going to Uni and getting any job he can in any theatre who has space for him. In the meantime he could not waste his time by reading up on the internet...books being a tad expensive possibly.

 

If he is inquisitive enough then he will find masses of knowledge to do the underpinning thing. If he is not then that's his problem.

 

As for the support for Unis from those who teach at Unis, this is only to be expected...in the same way I am a very ardent supporter of the hands on approach interspersed with the visits to training college for modules on just about anything "technical".

[i_broom_56]

Joshua,

 

I can speak from experience: the BSc (Hons) Sound, Light and live event technology degree at the University of Derby is an in depth detailed technical course that will open up many doors in your future.

 

I graduated there in 2009 and have been traveling the world since.

 

Good luck with all your decisions

 

Regards

 

Ian

[ramdram]

And then, from today's Times, page 35 (Business), we read of some excellent news that several leading British accountantcy outfits are to hire more youngsters from school, bypassing the UNI bit.

 

This is, as you might expect, a direct consequence of the hike in student fees. A spokeswoman goes on to say that some schoolleavers are electing to go for an "on the job professional training" and not accumulate a substantial debt into the bargain. (Possibly an unintended "intelligence test" in its own right?)

 

I am hoping this sort of thing rubs off in theatreland, where some far-seeing theatre managers recognise the benefits and do exactly the same. Who knows?

[David Ripley]

"on the job professional training"

 

= working for free in a post that should be occupied by a paid worker

 

Hardly training and certainly not education

 

Anyone else remember the YOP and YTS schemes?

 

David

[Paul TC]

"on the job professional training"

 

And anyone remember the time BT gave day-release to gain ONC/HNC, there were a number of ways to work and gain formal qualifications, including sponsored degree study during ones employment. I do not recall anyone working for free there.

 

And BT was not the only one doing it. And as for accountancy, one can become qualified by "on the job trainning" in the same time as someone gains a degree and debt.

[ramdram]

Ref #40.

 

How do you suppose the BBC did it before degrees became more popular? Even then some stuff was so station specific even Wood Norton did not have the kit, let alone a Uni, ** laughs out loud **.

 

Certainly never had curtain arrays cut for 6 to 30Mhz...or 10M diameter dishes.

[cedd]

I've got to say, I'm surprised so many people within "our" industry (I say that as a largely amateur - so it's not really "mine" to start with!) are still considering university as a valid option.

There IS a place for a degree, and I don't want to in any way put down any degree courses, their lecturers or students.

 

BUT.....

With the implementation of these fee hikes, one has to ask if we can justify having tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt, with an aim to work in an industry that on the whole, doesn't pay very well at all. It's an investment that I just can't see giving enough return. Yes, knowledge costs these days, but as has been proven time and time again both on and off stage, it's who you know, not what you know. Moreso, it's your attitude and willingness to learn and be the right sort of person.

 

I realise I speak as somebody who isn't making his money (or most of it) from theatre, but my main intention of going into my current line of work was to become competent at electronic and electrical engineering, then hopefully sidestep into the theatre. In the end I've decided the balance I'm currently striking works for me (and pays my mortgage!).

 

Is there really so little call for people with a recognised technical qualification? A qualified and apprentice trained spark on a lighting crew seems to me to be a far better employment choice than somebody who's done a more "arty" degree in lighting design. Plus the skills are transferable out of our industry if the going gets tough.

I'd personally prefer somebody working for me as a noiseboy if they can solder, terminate XLR's, multiways and coaxial connectors in their sleep, and understand what's actually going on inside the kit (and be able to fix it quick, in the dark). I'd also prefer them to be trustworthy, a nice person, and be able to have a laugh while retaining a degree of professionalism. If a degree teaches this, great, but my best helper doesn't have a qualification to his name. He gets plenty of work!

My apprenticeship was utterly the right choice for me to have made. I was paid (not much) to study, I paid none of my fees and now have a recognised professional qualification that is widely accepted as being the industry standard for a maintenance/installation engineer. Moreso, I'm 24 and own my own house.

Degrees may well be the right choice for some, but my plea is to those who leave school and think they are expected to go to university. I felt an utter failure when I rejected my university places. My school never acknowledged that I was entering into a recognised training programme that was a viable alternative (I remember the meetings with my careers adviser well). To them I was a failure - a target that wasn't met.

BUT, I'm happy, I'm qualified and (I think) I'm good at what I do. There are other options and they're worth exploring, despite what your school say! It makes sense financially and if it's the right route for you (it isn't for all), it's ultimately a very good decision to make.

[bigdave1407]

Hi

 

one College that is missing from your list and I think you could consider is Guildford School of acting. They run a Stage Management and Technical BA Hons (I think its call professional production skills)

it is a CDS drama schhol and is about to move into a brand new Theatre which has great facilities. I did the course a few years ago and I am currently working here. if you want any more infomation send me an email - d.mitchell@gsa.surrey.ac.uk

 

cheers

 

Dave

 

 

[Matthew Robinson]

As a student, I feel dismayed by the negative feelings towards uni on this forum. People don't necessarily need to go to uni to embark on this career, but surely it gives them a good grounding, with much of the knowledge needed for this career path?

 

Surely, the OP needs to decide where they want to be in the industry? Do they want to be heading for artistic/design work (in which case they want an artistic degree with lighting design in it), or a technical degree (such as SLLET, sound degrees, etc) or you could even take a degree in something more general: engineering, physics, etc. (Remember, this will allow a change of career later in life without retraining).

 

My point is that too many people are willing to knock university, and surely this is wrong.