New installation - sound and lighting cutout?

[Ynot]

Hear hear to all the above.

 

Another vote of confidence for the local Fire Officers. ALWAYS keen to help in every way.

They're keen to help because the fire service is one of those jobs where you'd really rather NOT have to do your job under more difficult circumstances than absolutely necessary, so being able to properly advise customers in advance is, to them, a major bonus.

[Paul TC]

Another vote of confidence for the local Fire Officers. ALWAYS keen to help in every way.

 

Some years ago, having been in a situation with having to create a doorway with 3 differrent sets of legal requirements applicable to it, the on-site advice given by the Fire Service was very helpful.

 

And they accepted running through the premises shouting "FIRE" was an acceptable means of raising the alarm. :D This was taking the WHOLE picture of the premises, including fire procedures, use, construction, fire fighting equipment, layout, and means of escape into account.

[andy_s]

what are the credentials of the installation company? have they got any previous experience of theatres? can you contact their previous clients for references?

 

I'm with the vast majority here - I think they are trying to pull a fast one, to be charitable, perhaps because they don't understand how theatres work, or to be less charitable, because they are rapacious so-and-sos who are trying to "maximise their turnover" (or rip you off...)

 

I think alarm bells ring when you hear them say "it's the law" and then when challenged respond with "well it's not really the law ..." This wouldn't fill me with confidence if I was in your shoes.

[LXbydesign]

No, thats rubbish what he is saying. Its just a crafty sales plot for you to buy an expensive bit of kit thats not needed.

 

In the event of a real fire, I would shut down the stage lighting and bring up the working lights - which cover all areas. In the extent that the fire caused 'electrical meltdown' by the intake, then the secondary maintained lighting would kick in and along with the floods and lit escape route signs, this would allow patrons to be directed out of the building.

 

Soundsystems should never be shut off, purely for the use of the PA to direct people out if needed. As well as theatre work, I dj in many clubs in Uk and abroad, and all dj boxes have a light of some kind to indicate that the alarm has gone off AND the security by the box would say as well and then the music has to be shut off. The PA is still on so that the mic can be used to help with evacuation.

 

Back at work, the extent of a full evac is highly unlikely, unless there was a real fire!! We have a 3 level alert. When a smoke alarm is activated, it sends an alert to a pager and mobile phone that the operations team have, telling them what the location is. This then turns into an audible intermittent alarm after 1 minute if the problem isnt resolved. This means that there could be a fire, but its not an evac yet! After 2 minutes if by then the alarm has not been reset (ie - it was a false alarm), then the tone sounds continuosly, the red strobe lights start blinking and all the mag locks on all doors release and evacuation begins.

 

I think its a really good system because we have had a couple of false alerts during shows, but nothing has been affected because someone can, 9 times out of 10, get to where the alert is triggered from within a minute even before the first audio alert starts.

[michaelyallop]

I have downloaded, and adjusted to suit our needs, a Fire evacuation procedure using the "mr sands" codeword. If anyone has five minutes, I wouldn't mind you having a look through it to see if there are any flaws or anything that can be added. This is hopefully the start of our arguement against this expensive piece of kit.

 

http://www.heworthchristianfellowship.org.uk/HG Evacuation Fire policy procedure.doc

 

Sorry for some reason, I can't seem to get the whole thing as a hyper link, however it you copy the whole line it works.

 

Thanks in advance.

[kerry davies]

Michael, sorry to be a wet blanket but without a lot more knowledge of your specific circumstances, anyone commenting would be in a precarious position, legally. In general I would be more detailed as to chain-of-command in emergencies, roles and duties of each position and have both during and outside performance procedures. There is a lot more I could nit-pick but I tend to get paid for that. :)

 

Call your Fire Officer and run through these things with him. As everyone has said they are really helpful 99.9% of the time and can save time, money and effort. I worked with one at Cullercoats a few years back and, besides being Northern, he was reasonably human!

http://www.twfire.org/firesafety/business/contact/

[michaelyallop]

Thanks Kerry for your input. Its only a preliminary idea. We have just found out the contact details of our fire officer so are in the process of contacting him. My idea is to meet with him and talk through the proposal in more detail and nit pick. Thanks for your help so far.

 

I will update when I here more.

[paulears]

The thing to remember is that when you talk to them, you need to remember that anything you say must have a sensible safety basis, not really an artistic or technical one. So telling them that you'd really like the ability to make the stage bright in an emergency, rather than plunge the stage into semi-darkness until somebody manually found the working lights is a positive reason for not having the dimmers run through the cut-out. Detailing how the equipment hates being powered down in this way is not really his problem, so they won't put much weight on that kind of reason. Kind of treat it a little bit like spin - it can make a difference.

[Junior8]

Talk to the fireman and do what he says. Read the Guide to fire precautions in existing places of entertainment and like premises first though it is packed with good sense.

[Brian]

Talk to the fireman and do what he says. Read the Guide to fire precautions in existing places of entertainment and like premises first though it is packed with good sense.

Except I believe I'm right in saying that it's been superseded by the guides which go with the Fire Regulatory Reform Order.

[Junior8]

Talk to the fireman and do what he says. Read the Guide to fire precautions in existing places of entertainment and like premises first though it is packed with good sense.

Except I believe I'm right in saying that it's been superseded by the guides which go with the Fire Regulatory Reform Order.

 

Yes of course - but I still think that the Guide deals the essentials excellently

[kerry davies]

Nothing wrong with using the "guide to fire precautions" as an aide but the RRO recognised current guide is found here; http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/144821.pdf

 

I've always found it useful to "sing from the same hymn sheet" as EHO's, Fire Officers and the like. It never fails to impress them with ones conscientious approach to their pet subjects. As Paul states, a little snake-oil goes a long way and these RRO RA guides really are very good.

[boswell]

Nothing wrong with using the "guide to fire precautions" as an aide but the RRO recognised current guide is found here; http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/144821.pdf

 

I've always found it useful to "sing from the same hymn sheet" as EHO's, Fire Officers and the like. It never fails to impress them with ones conscientious approach to their pet subjects. As Paul states, a little snake-oil goes a long way and these RRO RA guides really are very good.

 

Our fire RA states as an opener that it is based on the above link and it goes down well with the local FO

[Wright Event Supplies]

I worked at a venue where the alarm system had a Stage one - silent to customers but sounding in all staff areas with flashing red lights . This would be set off by any smoke detector in the building. It would stay like that for 2mins, allowing the designated "responsible persons" time to check area concerned and deactivate false alarm. If it was in fact a really fire then hitting a break glass would set it straight into Stage 2 - automatically all house lights would come on, lighting rig would stay on, an interface into the sound mixer would mute all music channels but keep the mic channel live for announcements.

 

But as far as I know it's your local Fire Officer who would be best to advise you on what is required.