mrleemtl Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Hi,I have to make haze cheaply, while avoiding smoke detector restrictions.Has anyone ever used an ultrasonic hazer with glycerine in the water?Your thoughts as well as a water/glycerine recipe would be appreciated.Someone near by has done this, many years ago - it seems to me that I need to use the very old style humidifiers, with a rapidly moving metal stick inside: hence 'ultrasonic hazer'?Let me know,thanksmrleemtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoLiEn Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 What type of smoke detectors are they? if they are the newer "particle" sensors, doesnt matter how you do it, if they are active you will set them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 A haze machine will eventually set off the detectors, I wouldn't want it to be my design that fired the alarms. Get a decent name brand haze machine AND arrange for the licence holder at the venue to determine the best alarm settings for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrleemtl Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 A haze machine will eventually set off the detectors, I wouldn't want it to be my design that fired the alarms. Get a decent name brand haze machine AND arrange for the licence holder at the venue to determine the best alarm settings for you.Ya, kind of a bummer about that: $175 per night or rehearsal to mind the alarm panel. Believe me I would prefer to do it right...It is a small venue. I was hoping that I could do a 'semblance' of haze without actually doing it... just a mild mist to see the beamage a bit and thicken the density of the looks.A humidifyer, that doesn't heat the particles before it shoots them out, mostly water, probably a cup of glicerine in a gallon of water... should I really be worried?mrleemtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_s Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 A humidifyer, that doesn't heat the particles before it shoots them out, mostly water, probably a cup of glicerine in a gallon of water... should I really be worried? There are three types of smoke detector - ionisation, optical, and heat/rate of heat rise. The first two work by detecting particles in the air (be it smoke, haze, or otherwise). I'd imagine that a humidifier would set those off eventually. The third type wouldn't be set off by a haze machine anyway. You may also want to consider the effect on the performers from increasing the humidity significantly. They may be less than best pleased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrleemtl Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 A humidifyer, that doesn't heat the particles before it shoots them out, mostly water, probably a cup of glicerine in a gallon of water... should I really be worried? There are three types of smoke detector - ionisation, optical, and heat/rate of heat rise. The first two work by detecting particles in the air (be it smoke, haze, or otherwise). I'd imagine that a humidifier would set those off eventually. The third type wouldn't be set off by a haze machine anyway. You may also want to consider the effect on the performers from increasing the humidity significantly. They may be less than best pleased!Yup, particle sensors, thanks also SoLiEn...We have decided to try and cap them, for a test with the humidifier. But sweaty dancers? They are going to Love it! actually, I remember the air quality being decidedly better in the theatre the one time I did see them years ago. Within a few minutes of turning them on, our dry black box got a little more livable.At least now I have the TD's permission to take a whak at it. I'll try and get back to let you all know how it went.mrleemtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I'd be surprised if you could generate high enough density to trigger detectors with this sort of haze. But equally you might struggle to get enough for a reasonable effect. The best known machine for this was the Jem Hydrosonic. Transducers + water/glycol mix. Discontinued due to unreliability but looked amazing. The biggest problem users seemed to have was slippery floors from residue, especially close to the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 maplin do some mini ultrasonic humidifier/foggers, whislt these wouldnt be big enough for this effect, I doubt it would last long enough, the ultrasonics I have create quite large "vapour particals" that lend more to a dry ice ish effect than haze, I bought them for a witches couldren effect, for which they worked well, Im sceptical that a haze would be created, especially as glycerine is more viscouse than water is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrleemtl Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 Hi all,just thought I'd get back to let you know that my humidifyer worked fantastically!We did cap the smoke detectors, so I don't know if they would actually have sounded, but probably, as they are particle detectors.about 6 oz of glycerine with about 4 litres of water makes great haze. It actually fills our little black box theatre in minutes. We don't even use it before the public has entered, and by the time the house goes out the haze is quite visible, and getting thicker.Total cost: $20 for a used, ultrasonic hazer, 6.50$ for a bottle of glycerine from the drugstore, good for 2 batches. I get awesome haze for a pittance.Hope this is useful to some of you,mrleemtl(Canadian dollars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 We did cap the smoke detectors,Sorry - when you say 'Cap the sensors' do you mean you covered them to prevent particles getting in to them?If so, had you been in the UK I suspect that you'd be getting a rather stern visit from at the least the local Fire Service as this is a pretty risky thing to do and something that few (if any) people here would condone. Smoke detectors of any type are there for a purpose. In the case of environments where smoke isn't necessarily indicative of fire, there may be local procedures that allow the isolation by way of keyswitch/programming during use of (eg) a stage effect, BUT what must be in place when doing so is a concrete process of monitoring by an authorised venue operative who can/will restore control to the sensors once the performance has concluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrleemtl Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 We did cap the smoke detectors,Sorry - when you say 'Cap the sensors' do you mean you covered them to prevent particles getting in to them?If so, had you been in the UK I suspect that you'd be getting a rather stern visit from at the least the local Fire Service as this is a pretty risky thing to do and something that few (if any) people here would condone. Smoke detectors of any type are there for a purpose. In the case of environments where smoke isn't necessarily indicative of fire, there may be local procedures that allow the isolation by way of keyswitch/programming during use of (eg) a stage effect, BUT what must be in place when doing so is a concrete process of monitoring by an authorised venue operative who can/will restore control to the sensors once the performance has concluded. Ok, I am chastised...An authorised venue operative costs $175 per rehearsal or show to look after the sensors. Decidedly out of our budget. I got the ok from the TD, and the house tech uncaps after the performances. Pretty much the same thing, no?No theatre fires so far... I'm thinking a humidifyer is unlikely to trigger one, but we do have backup plans, staff and gear if ever...mrleemtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durian Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 if the venue has a public entertainment licence or you have paying public or the venue is a recognised venue and you cover the detectors you can be in deep deep trouble. it is against the law to cover them, be warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 if the venue has a public entertainment licence or you have paying public or the venue is a recognised venue and you cover the detectors you can be in deep deep trouble.Err, the OP is from Quebec so their laws are very different to ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 if the venue has a public entertainment licence or you have paying public or the venue is a recognised venue and you cover the detectors you can be in deep deep trouble. it is against the law to cover them, be warned. Interestingly I know of three local authority ran venues (in different local authorities) used as theatre spaces where covering them is part of the venues official policy (with appropriate documentation and risk assessment to back it up) The reason behind it, as far as I know, being that the installed system cannot isolate just the appropriate sensors but must disable a whole zone which includes areas of the building that are unoccupied during performance. It's therefore been assessed as safer to cover sensors than isolate the whole zone. I don't recommend it by any means - but I don't believe it's illegal per se (ill-advised and downright stupid most of the time, yes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Watch out for the fire safety police ;) :D I too have come accross venues that have caps for the detectors - you can actually get 'official' ones, which I think are used maybe during building works or other occasions where the detectors cannot but need to be isolated.As it is normal to fine systems where detectors can be isolated for occasions where they could be nuisence triggered, then I don't see why a cap would be an issue, provided it is RA'd and managed correctly. As suggested, you won't have the local nick battering your door down at 5am for tampering with a fire alarm system - unless of course you intended the place to burn down :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.