Ebay Find

[savage1]

I think last time this came up we all concluded we secretly wanted one!

 

 

Nope..... ok well perhaps just a little bit.

[Jivemaster]

And was ther not a thread earlier in the year about where to get the canisters from when the first ones run out and there is a show in three days??? For which the solution if there was one was never published here.

[newsosa]

Contolling LPG's from DMX isn't Illegal but for any SFX stuff I would always use Magic:

http://www.magicfx.eu/Default.aspx

 

And I've found the best supplier in the UK for Magic Stuff is BPM SFX - I think there shop is currently down but I rang them last week and they are still taking orders:

http://www.bpm-sfx.com/

[Ynot]

I cant recall any threads recently about specific products, ...

How about this one from November...?

[Jivemaster]

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=40507

[slipstream]

For a cheap and chearful effect they are OK - the build quality is poor and if you depend on them working to get paid, I ould look elsewhere. Not CE tested but as you are the importer, thet's your problem. In a location where a misfire is acceptable at anytime, then, DMX would be fine, for a safety critical application - ehh no.

 

Solution for the fluid is brake cleaner from halfords, if your in a fix - thats whats in the cans from china

 

Sam

[Jivemaster]

Like any other pyro situation, if the worst case total malfunction is still acceptable safe then the risks are reduced when using DMX. However it is still the case that the DMX specification says that dangerous tasks should not be controlled with DMX.

[kerry davies]

Do you mean Wynns type brake cleaner?

Look what I found http://www.wynns.net/product_files/Brake%2...7710%20MSDS.pdf

"This material and its container must be disposed of as hazardous wastes." is about the least problematic, or maybe it's "Avoid release to the environment." No, it's definitely this bit "phosgene gas may be formed on combustion"

 

Best leave Ebay alone methinks....and steer clear of anyone burning brake cleaner.

[slipstream]

Brake Cleaner - 100% Naptha with CO2 propellant- combustion byproducts - same as propane or petrol - ie CO2 and Water with a small amount of unburnt carbon - look up the COSHH sheets to find whats in the brand you want to buy - wurth was the one I had in mind - Halfords have changed manufacturers - the last brand they did was also Naptha

 

http://www.wurth.co.uk/catalogue/pdfs/UK-CD_08_0005.pdf

https://ehs.wuerth.com/ehs4customers/export/00096103.PDF

[kerry davies]

Thanks for the links Slipstream, not sure about it though:

"Hazardous decomposition products may be formed under fire conditions"

"In the event of fire, wear self-contained breathing apparatus"

"Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment"

"Do not spray on a naked flame or any other incandescent material. Keep away from sources of ignition"

"Dangerous for the environment"

 

Not convinced it is a lot safer than Wynns when they advise using BA for when it is fired up. I wonder what proprietary aerosols used for flame effects contain? Anyone have any idea?

[slipstream]

Erm , maybe it's me not being clear here - The can of chinese fluid I had run through a mass spec was 97% Naptha, I didn't guess at it and try every can that fitted- course its got all the bad stuff listed, you have 60 litres of something worse in your car, its basically petrol, I think the army use it as a liquid fuel in some applications.

 

Only safe option is to use a battery driven led lighting effect - everything else has risks thats what risk management is about

[sleah]

Only safe option is to use a battery driven led lighting effect -

 

Depends what you are meaning by safe... :D

 

If you were to eat say a 500w fresnel it would probably give you a bit of a stomach ache, it will contain lots of metal, aluminium, steel, copper...

Some rubber from the cable and plug. Bit of crunchy glass from the lamp and lens.

Suffice to say you would probably need some Gaviscon after that lot!

 

Now to eat a battery powered LED light, most of the above plus plastic and some very nasty poisons :huh:

I'm sure LEDs contain gallium arsnide( :unsure: ????) and I dread to think what lurks inside a battery :o

So apart from the indegestion, you would be poisened nicely, and need extra special precautions to dispose of your body in a safe and legal manner, you couldn't just be burried with those poisons in you B-)

 

Back to the flame effects and comparing with a car containing petrol - don't forget in a car the 'after effects' are filtered through the catalytic convertor before being sent on it's way, a naked flame machine doesn't have such luxury!

[MarkPAman]

Back to the flame effects and comparing with a car containing petrol - don't forget in a car the 'after effects' are filtered through the catalytic converter before being sent on it's way, a naked flame machine doesn't have such luxury!

 

A car will also use it fuel much more slowly so that these products are not usually so concentrated in one place.

[kerry davies]

Nice One, Simon;

I have asked for an expert opinion on the burning of these chemicals and will post it here ASAP.

 

NOTE: I am not saying it's wrong or dangerous...just questionable and thank Slips for engaging my curiosity. When I saw that burning the Wynns product produced Phosgene, a World War One poison gas, I was a tiny bit alarmed and, knowing how earlier Chinese manufacturers had behaved regarding safety, became engaged in the subject. I do not know what is in the Chinese products and simply want to ensure that Ebay is not selling anything dangerous.

 

The Wurth data sheets confirm that Chlorine is not present so the Phosgene is not produced but they do say that the product should not be burned and this is what I am querying. The aquatic/environmental dangers are present because, like diesel and petrol, it is a recognised petro-chemical pollutant so Slips is right in most of what has been said.

 

Naphtha is a collective term and one form may be carcinogenous and another completely safe, one fine to be burned and another highly toxic. I think we should know which is which and I may well be over-reacting.

[Jivemaster]

If it didn't burn we wouldnt be using it in flame jets!!!! It's a petroleum product therfore if floats on water and will kill fish and pond life! It's pyro therefore there WILL be risks. Yes LEDs are gallium arsenide, and gallium arsenide phosphide probably doped with other toxic metaloids