Lighting for a small band???

[Plan-B]

Hi all, I'm very new to stage lighting and I'm looking for suggestions and advice on the subject. I'm in a small band a we recently have played a few gigs where no lighting was available. We would like to invest in some portable stage lighting for such situations. My thoughts are to use DMX LED par cans, a couple DMX effect lights and a control board. My issue is that we will not have a tech to control these light and it will be left up to busy band members. What I think we need is a foot switch system that will allow us to access a few different things on the control board; blackout, full up, a few different sound activated chases for the par cans, a few chases for the effect lights and maybe control a fog machine ect. Our current budget is very limited so I'm looking for cost effective but with the abilty to expand. Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be greatly apprecated.

[Trunker]

Check out KAM. They had a system similar to what you want on show in Plasa this year.

[Rhythm Addiction]

Check out KAM. They had a system similar to what you want on show in Plasa this year.

Another vote for this type of setup. KAM's Par Bar Mk II is worth having a look at. Prolight and others do something similar too.

Try to audition whatever you can to see what it produces in terms of chases and how it reacts to music if you want sound to light. They might be sold as being suitable for bands but some chases are a bit too 'disco' for me. Oviously that's just my opinion! B-)

[Joe Bleasdale]

Hi all, I'm very new to stage lighting and I'm looking for suggestions and advice on the subject. I'm in a small band a we recently have played a few gigs where no lighting was available. We would like to invest in some portable stage lighting for such situations. My thoughts are to use DMX LED par cans, a couple DMX effect lights and a control board. My issue is that we will not have a tech to control these light and it will be left up to busy band members. What I think we need is a foot switch system that will allow us to access a few different things on the control board; blackout, full up, a few different sound activated chases for the par cans, a few chases for the effect lights and maybe control a fog machine ect. Our current budget is very limited so I'm looking for cost effective but with the abilty to expand. Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be greatly apprecated.

 

Hi,

 

This has been covered many, many times. The best option for you would be to use the search function located towards the top right hand side of your screen.

 

I suspect the Mods will close this soon.

 

Best,

[steve h]

Hi,

 

This has been covered many, many times. The best option for you would be to use the search function located towards the top right hand side of your screen.

 

I suspect the Mods will close this soon.

 

Best,

 

Actually, I would argue that due the the continued development in LED lighting in recent months then it might be a good time to have this discussion again. As a player in a couple of semi-pro bands, and in the process of setting up one myself I would fin this discussion very helpful. Yes there are some very nice new LED fixtures out there, but there is also alot of tosh. It would also be good to compare this again a good old fashion bar of 4 par56s with gel

 

Any views out there?

 

Steve

[Joe Bleasdale]

good time to have this discussion again. As a player in a couple of semi-pro bands, and in the process of setting up one myself I would fin this discussion very helpful. Yes there are some very nice new LED fixtures out there, but there is also alot of tosh. It would also be good to compare this again a good old fashion bar of 4 par56s with gel

 

By all means have it again... but why not just merge it with the other threads already started?

 

Best,

[Jivemaster]

There are loads of LED and PAR solutions all on stands to get above head height. For control from within the band, a MIDI trgger is possible or a foot controller

[revbobuk]

I liked the video demos of the Enttec DMXIS software - that looks as if MIDI control of a simple lighting rig would be a very simple task.

[Plan-B]

Thanks for the comments guys! With me being in Canada the KAM Par Bar would not be an option as you can't get KAM here but I have seen similar lighting set ups by Chauvet and others. I think these are pretty amazing little rigs. I love the compact design and the ease of set up. They also allow for upgrading to a control board at a later time which is nice. The foot pedal is a good start but a bit limited. It looks like there would be no option for a full lights up or to control effects other then the par lights themselves. Also it looks like you can only use the pre programed chases even with a control board with no option to program you own, and one would have to scroll through them all when using the pedal including "disco" ones that we may not like.

 

After reading some other post on this forum (Sorry for the new thread Joe. Guess I should have tacked it on to one already started.) I think maybe the best route for us would be a midi compatible control board and a midi foot switch. I think the software controller route might be simpler to set up but I'm not sure I like the idea of packing a laptop at performances. I've been eyeballing the Obey 70 and the FCB1010 foot switch. It looks like the two would be cheap, compatible and fairly easy to set up. After reading both manuals I have yet to determine if the pedal will let me run scenes and chases in sound mode or if I would have to scroll through them, stomp stomp stomp, in manual mode. If I can't run in sound mode, using the pedal not so much for timing but for changing chases and effects, I think this would be a deal breaker for this type of set up.

 

Anyway, sounds like I'm maybe beating a dead horse with this topic but I do really appreciate the comments and suggestions. If anyone else has any thoughts, especially regarding a midi controller / foot switch sound mode option, I'd love to hear them.

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Just wanted to add that the above controller, and most others as I understand it, uses note-on commands and all other midi info is ignored. If anyone here knows of other, smaller foot switches that broadcast note-on commands I'd love to hear about them. Thanks again for all the help!

[KidRay]

I am using a similar set-up to what you're after, 8 LED par64 controlled by a Stairville DMX master.

Depending on which band is playing we may not have an operator, so the controller is operated from onstage. Unfortunately the controller does not have midi control capability, so I came up with a simple and effective solution.

 

The controller has a sound to light option, but the built in mic is so sensitive that it just runs through chases/scenes far too rapidly, it almost looks like strobing.

 

Fortunately there is an input for an external mic so, after some experimentation, the solution I came up with takes a feed from a spare aux channel on the sound desk, with the kick drum channel routed through it. This means I can adjust the level going to the light controller so that a slightly heavier hit on the kick drum will trigger the next step in the chase/sequence.

I can also easily adjust the aux send so that lights will change with every kick drum hit if necessary.

 

Not exactly a high-tech solution, but it works for us and the timing is always spot-on (assuming I'm playing in time!) and it eliminates the need for the singer/guitarist use a foot controller.

 

At some point in the future I will be adding some scanners/effects to the set up.

[Plan-B]

It's great you brought this up Ray. I was assuming that I would do the same thing with the Obey control board. Having it directly patched in instead of using the microphone should make for smoother, more accurate changes. After reading your post I brought up the manual for the Obey again and was surprised to see it didn't have and audio in. I was even more surprised when I could find no mention of a sound sensitivity dial. Anyone here use this controller? Can you set the sound sensitivity and how well does the sound mode preform?

 

While the set up you described Ray is great and probably similar to what we'll start out with I think it leaves out the ability to change the look of the stage. If I understand you correctly it sounds like you set your lights up to run a sound activated pattern and they scroll through it your entire show. Ultimately I'd like a little more control. For example when the chorus of a song hits, turn on some scanners and then off again when the chorus is over or black out at the end of a song and then bring all lights up to engage that audience.

 

Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the audio in. It's something I totally overlooked with that Obey board. I just assumed it was there.

[KidRay]

The way we use the controller is a bit limiting; as I said, kick drum is effectively used as a "next" button, I change the chase/scene bank, also fade time, in between songs to give a different look, I have programmed 6 chases (maximum on this controller) and about 20 banks of 8 scenes to give a good variation.

 

The problem with this is that we can't go directly to a particular scene on a specific cue, as you say. I'm still working on this!

 

The Stairville version of this controller doesn't have the option of midi control (there is a Chauvet version which does I believe), so that is not an option for me at the moment. Also there is no sensitivity control for the audio input, hence the need to use an aux send.

 

A better controller or a PC solution (I have Chamsys MagicQ, but not had time to experiment with it) is probably the way to go in the future, but it will always be a compromise without an lx operator.

[Brian]

A review of the Kam system is here along with other reviews of 'band' systems in previous months.

[bonzodog99]

I use LED Panels like the LEDJ Stratos Washes and Spots as oppose to Par cans as they are much more compact and I think look nicer. They are a bit more expensive but I only need two washes to light up an average size stage for a three piece band, so roughly work out same as 2 par cans (I pad 100 quid for each panel). I don't bother with a T Bar, just put one in each corner on the floor. American DJ also do some similar.

[Hypersound]

Maybe I can help a bit here as sound and lighting for small bands is really what I do.

 

Firstly, IMHO leds are the way to go for a smallish band in smallish venues. I am not so sure about the sort of package you are looking at though. At the risk of being patronising, there are two main requirements for lighting bands. The first is to actually light the individual members so that the audience can see them and they can see what they are doing. The second is essentially making patterns with beams of light in smoke/haze. The band should be lit from the front or side of the stage (if any!) and the beams should come from fixtures at the back or sides of the, ahem, stage. The thing is that there is little point in making patterns in haze unless you also have front lighting for the band or (possibly) you have a lot of beams. Well that is my opinion anyway.

 

So my advice is light the band first and do it with some fairly bright units with, in small venues with a fairly wide dispersion - so floods/washes then. I have only come across the sort of package that you are looking at once before but that was enough for me. My impression was that the ones I saw weren't particularly bright as compared to other units around so they tried to make them a bit brighter by making them produce fairly narrow beams the result being that they don't work as washes because of the relatively tight beam and they don't punch through a decently powered front wash as they aren't powerful enough.

 

Having been there, my advice would be to focus (sorry) on lighting the band first by using units with a minimum of 24x1W leds and hanging them in front or to the side of (or between the two) of the band. . In small venues they will want to be floods with a wide angle as they are going to be very close to the area they are lighing. Get as many as you can affford and add as you can afford them until you have about 8. Then get a smoke machine or better a haze machine. Then think about getting stuff to make beams in the haze. Ordinary disco stuff can be pretty effective for this. There are also led cans around that do a pretty good job of immitating a VNSP unit, I have 16 Showtec units with 24x1W leds and a beam of (from memory) about 10 degrees. They have enough punch to make a small gig look like a big gig. Another idea, if you get to this point, are led moving heads which enable you to set up lots of different lighting states with relatively few fixtures. I have 8 and they are really useful. A cheap and cheerful and very effective idea is to make what I call "poor mans ACLs" by using banks of 4 or 6 or 8 pinspots to make fans in the haze.

 

Scans are very nice but they tend to have tight beams so, in small venues, they won't light anything much. Better ones with prisms will produce wider beams but, again, they won't be quite as bright.

 

Anyway, I am waffling now and am a bit pushed for time. The main thing is that I would really advise that, if you are interested in the kam/chauvet type lighting bars that you actually demo them in a band type environment before parting with your hard earned and also, maybe, compare them with other alternatives. The other "main thing" is that you actually aim at lighing the band before you start on the much more tempting path of making beams of light in smoke.

 

Hope this helps to some extent.

 

Cheers.

Andy