jacet Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Well, if I had £200 and needed everything I think the first thing I'd buy would be PLI. Primarily because it's the one thing I wouldn't want to turn up to a gig without especially when it's generally possible to beg / borrow / acquire most other things that your tool box may be lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Well, if I had £200 and needed everything I think the first thing I'd buy would be PLI. Primarily because it's the one thing I wouldn't want to turn up to a gig without especially when it's generally possible to beg / borrow / acquire most other things that your tool box may be lacking. I completely agree with you on that!! PLI should be top of the list for a freelancer. Best Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Joe, forgive me if I'm wrong, but are you 17 as your username suggests? If so, how does an under-18 year old go about getting insurance of any kind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Not only that, but aren't you at school anyway? I very much doubt any insurance broker would sell PLI to a school student. Could be wrong, tho ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The DJ ones will sell to an 16 year old. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacet Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The DJ ones will sell to an 16 year old. Awesome, do you also get free a free vinyl slip-mat thrown in? Because that could definitely sway me from my far more reputable broker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepowerigor Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The DJ ones will sell to an 16 year old. Awesome, do you also get free a free vinyl slip-mat thrown in? Because that could definitely sway me from my far more reputable broker! Out of order, you berate them for not having PLI, and then when they get cover you berate them. We should be encouraging them not alwayss taking the mick, after all, we may end up working for the nippers one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think the scepticism might be justified. To take out an insurance policy, you're signing a legally binding contract. To the best of my knowledge, under the age of 18, you cannot sign contracts for yourself and anything you do sign would not be valid if it came to court. Now, I've heard of PLI policies where a parent's co-signature is acceptable--but many of these also include a clause that an adult has to be present and take responsibility for anything the minor does. Perhaps the case here, but the poster didn't mention any adult involvement. However, if an adult ISN'T involved, I wonder how legal the policy really is? Insurance companies just love to find ways to get out of paying! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacet Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The DJ ones will sell to an 16 year old. Awesome, do you also get free a free vinyl slip-mat thrown in? Because that could definitely sway me from my far more reputable broker! Out of order, you berate them for not having PLI, and then when they get cover you berate them. We should be encouraging them not alwayss taking the mick, after all, we may end up working for the nippers one day. Actually I didn't berate anybody for not having PLI, I was saying that in my opinion it's one of the most important things to have. If somebody wants to risk their house, their career and their life savings for the risk of saving £200 on insurance premiums that's their call but I was not attacking anybody.Secondly while I accept that it must be extremely difficult (and frustrating) for a minor who is trying to get covered, I believe that not having the correct insurance cover can be just as bad if not worse than not being covered at all. If you don't have cover you know where you stand, however if your policy is not designed specifically for your activities or your broker doesn't actually understand what it is your job entails then you may discover they aren't there for you when you really do need them. My post about the dj insurance companies was meant to be tongue in cheek, I may well get attacked for this but I generally have quite a low opinion of djs... Don't get me wrong, there are a significant number of highly talented, smart and genuinely nice ones out there. For each of these however there must be two dozen abusive, talentless, over grown bedroom djs who don't know their elbow from any other part of their anatomy and it was these people that I thought of when I read about DJ insurance. Josh (and anybody else in his position) I'm sorry if I over stepped the mark. I applaud you for getting insurance cover, it demonstrates that you recognise the responsibility that you carry while working and hopefully reflects a cautious working style which will prevent you from ever having to use your insurance, but I do hope that whichever policy you do have will cover you should the poo hit the fan. jacet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enbee Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 As a large part of my work, I am involved in training relative newbies and the question of what kit to buy comes up so regularly that I have the below stock answers 1- everyone likes someone who can drive the van - you may not walk into companies and get desk op jobs straight away but most hire companies need someone from time to time to drop off/pick up kit. Also an ability to drive makes me more inclined to give someone a shot because there is much less chance of the finding themselves late due to public transport, unable to get home and therefore needing extra accommodation etc. Spend the money and learn to drive 2- PLI - this should not even be a discussion point. I have never and will never use a freelancer who does not carry PLI. It shows they understand the element of risk involved and take their job and livelihood seriously. Unfortunately, this often means I have to turn down people who are asking me to give them a shot. 3- contacts are worth more than kit. The reality is that we all (as freelancers) get 90% of the work we do from people we already know and if this means that to start with you are limited to doing crappy jobs in the warehouse and out driving kit in order to meet and build relationship with the people who can help build your career then thats what you've got to do. 4- Always undersell and over deliver on your skills. We can all walk into a room and claim to be the next big thing but anyone who knows anything will spot in the first 20 mins of you being on site what you knowledge and skills really are. I'd rather have someone who wanted to learn and was honest enough to admit where they lack experience than someone who is going to stubbornly bodge something that will cause me grief later. 5- Don't buy kit until you cannot continue without it. I have now been involved in events for 11 years and I would say (based on my employment status) doing it professionally for 5 years. To some people this seems like a long time, to others I'm brand new to this. To me, I now know how much I still have to learn. If I had bought the most desirable piece of kit every time I had some cash, I'd now be on my 4th or 5th lighting desk and my 3rd broadcast camera. The reality is every job needs something different so unless you're going to do exactly the same show every day for the rest of your life, you probably cannot guarantee to make a return on the purchase. 6- Decide if you want to be a freelance tech, a house tech or a hire company and focus on that. If you want to be freelance, don't buy kit other than tools for yourself. Concentrate on building a relationship with a hire company who will do you a good rate and if you must make money on kit, stick a mark up on it and make the percentage without the maintenance costs or responsibilities. Those who buy kit and offer themselves as the tech, put themselves into a minefield of competition whilst limiting the jobs they can do by what they have purchased. House techs don't need kit generally, a decent toolbox and a decent set of headphones (for the noise boys) should be everything you need. So, I guess what I'm saying is with £200, buy PLI then Driving lessons and a toolbox (until cash runs out) For me and where I'm at, £200 is probably better spent taking my wife away for a weekend so that we actually see each other at some point!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techtech Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I would spend £200 on..................erm......a....... DMX TESTER/LINEBACKER!!!!!!!!I WASTED 2 HOURS MONDAY ******G ABOUT ON TRYING SORT DODGY BLOODY CABLES/EQUIPMENT. Trust me kids when I say - Test equipment you should own ready for the untested equipment they make you to use. Disclaimer: Equipment is always tested by hire companys (or should be) but after 6 weeks of touring you can throw the test cert out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I think the scepticism might be justified. To take out an insurance policy, you're signing a legally binding contract. To the best of my knowledge, under the age of 18, you cannot sign contracts for yourself and anything you do sign would not be valid if it came to court.Interesting... For two years I had insurance of my own, was under 18, and didn't have parental input. Bike insurance specifically, but a contract none the less. The knew my age, took the money and issued a certificate. I don't think that this is somewhere the law has changed recently, but it was 30 years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modge Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 DMX TESTERThey are remarkably handy for those of a lampy bent, though not necessarily the first tool I'd buy. But put it this way: I brought the Thonnman one on the recommendation of this forum (thanks by the way!) and when it went AWOL(I still don't get how that happened but anyway) I replaced it instantly. I should admit that in my case it gets more use than normal because I use it testing LimeLight but even when I'm freelancing it's invaluable. Costs €145 plus €10 for shipping and sadly comes with a Schuko charger. I've also discovered that's it's available badged being made by "work" in parts of Eastern Europe, along with a unit in the same casing (but with many more buttons) with slightly different functionality. Edit:I should I suppose add many people do indeed freelance without one and I was amongst there numbers until fairly recently my self but having used it I was amazed at just much time chasing down silly DMX faults it saves. This applies even more when you're using fixtures that have no \ very bad indication that they're receiving DMX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 A decent set of earplugs may also help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 A decent set of earplugs may also help. is that because of quality of the bands you'll have to work with when you first start out ba dum ching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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