mrg198 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 What I'm looking to do for our next show is to come up with a system for the sound op to be able to listen on comms and also be able to listen to pfl/cue on an LS9 without having to take off the headset (a DMH210) and put on headphones. The two possible end results I'm thinking of are as follows: Binaural headset - like a DMH220 so as to use the boom mic with the comms in one ear and the pfl/cue in the other - plus it's easy to adjust the volume of either or Utilise the existing single muff headset (leaving the other ear to listen to the room) and be able to mix/switch between the comms and pfl/cue. I DON'T want to feed cue/pfl through the whole comms circuit to everyone! I've looked at this thread http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?show...mp;#entry131377 but it doesn't seem quite like I'm after. I don't want to feed comms to the PA. I also want to retain the boom mic - hence thinking of a solution that would use the techpro headsets. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on how best to achieve either of these end results? The kit we have already is several BP111 beltpacks and DMH210 headsets (plus one DMH310). This is for an amateur show so I'd ordinarily try and find a low cost solution but it's something that could be useful for our work too so I can justify the kit as a business expense as long as it doesn't cost too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatman Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The Beyerdynamic DT109 has separate wiring for the two earmuffs so that you can feed comms into one and program into the other; but at around £120 not a cheap solution. Alternatively use one of these and rewire the second earmuff for your program feed. They have a dynamic mic which is ideal for comms but the headphone impedence is only 64 ohms compared to the 400 ohms of the DT109. It's never been a problem with Tecpro beltpacks, but I can't vouch for Stonewood as I've never used them with that setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 feed your coms into a spare desk channel and have that channel permantly pfl'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 This has been covered recently in a slightly different vein in another topic - though I can't seem to locate it at the moment. But if you have a Tecpro/Metro master PSU, there is an audio in XLR which has a level control on the PSU that allows you to send a signal - eg from group or aux - to the cans. And with a 2-channel master station you could simply have one channel to yourself, ie sound, and the rest on t'other channel - switching between the two as necessary. In fact on a show I worked on last week, the SM requested a feed from stage to be dropped into the cans circuit at the top of the show as the start was in fronto of house tabs and he couldn't hear for his cues to LX. So for about 5 minutes he had a direct in-ear feed which was cut when the tabs opened and all was audible again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Production Intercom must have heard your request: the AD-Mix range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrg198 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Thanks for the replies so far! Boatman - I think I saw mention of those headsets in another thread on using cheaper headsets with comms - I've heard things before about complications with extending headset leads because of weird impedance type problems so I was wary about using non-standard headsets! I'm not sure if it's possible to just wire one of those muffs to the pfl output of the desk - I guess it would work ok? the mad hippy - I had thought of that already but it has two problems to overcome - 1) How do you have a permanent PFL on an LS9 that doesn't disappear when you hit 'cue clear' and 2) That would require an AD903 to get the audio out of the comms into the desk and how do I still need a headset mic of some description fed to the BP111 pack so the op can talk back. Ynot - A master station would be lovely but I don't own one and neither does the theatre so @ £800 is an expensive solution in this case! However that is clever thinking!. Actually it makes me think that one option could possibly be achieved using a twin circuit beltpack (switchable or binaural) with the second circuit connected to another psu output(I have a PS711) and an AD903 to feed the audio into the second circuit. Incidentally - is it possible to have a twin circuit beltpack fed from different power supplies on each circuit(I don't know where the theatre's supply is but I bet it's no near the sound op). David - Genius! That does indeed look like a promising solution. Interesting how they don't have a UK distributor and the kit looks remarkably like canford tecpro - even down to similar model numbers - like the AD903 for example! I just need to track down where I can get them from and how much. Do you think I can use any old cable with 4pin XLRs on to connect it to a beltpack or am I going to hit some sort of weird impedance problems with the mic? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatman Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 ..Boatman - I think I saw mention of those headsets in another thread on using cheaper headsets with comms - I've heard things before about complications with extending headset leads because of weird impedance type problems so I was wary about using non-standard headsets! I'm not sure if it's possible to just wire one of those muffs to the pfl output of the desk - I guess it would work ok?.. They are assembled with self tapping screws so are very simple to modify. The second earmuff is connected to the main one (with the mic) through the headband. This connection can be removed and wired directly to a separate jack very easily. Alternatively you can just remove the second earmuff and fix a pad to the end of the headband. It just depends on how long you want to spend on the job and how much you value your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 You could use a cheap separate line mixer, something like the Behringer Xenyx 502 to mix the phones output from the desk and from the cans together. I imagine you could make this with a couple of adaptor cables; breaking out the Phones circuit from the beltpack to run it through the desk and passing the Mic output straight back from the boom mic on the heatset into the belt pack. [Edit]: if this was for me, I'd probably upgrade the heatset to something like the HMD280 Pro, as I wouldn't really want to use the headsets we have for critical listening from the desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrg198 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Does anyone have any suggestions of better quality (for PFL purposes) headsets that are single muff and with suitable impedences etc. for use with Tecpro kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidso Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 can I not add a simple solution. Buy 1 x small project box 1 x 4 pin XLR cable plug 1 x XLR Panel mount 4 pin female 1 x Stereo panel mount jack socket 1 x XLR panel mount Male 3 pin and 1 x 4 pole double throw toggle switch. Simply connect the headset output to the common of the switch The Comms input to one side of the switch and the jack socket and 3 pin male XLR to the other side of the switch. Yes it will be mono, but how often on PLF do you use stereo? simple easy and effective and will take all of about 30mins to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 That's a good solution; it would take out the noise of the comms while you were PFLing as well, as no doubt someone would have a mic open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henny Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 try http://www.interspaceind.com/products/product.php?id=5, or maby not at Price: £275.00 (Excluding VAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I can't help on the PFL switching on the LS9, but I've been using Mr Hippy's solution for years, feeding the headphone output from the Tecpro into pins 2 and 3 of an XLR plug - mainly because tecpro kit is prone to hums being induced in the comms line, and feeding it into a balanced input with no ground minimises any snags. If an LS9 cannot cancel the autocancel, that's not very good - I can think of plenty of times when cancelling like this would be a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ynot - A master station would be lovely but I don't own one and neither does the theatre so @ £800 is an expensive solution in this case! However that is clever thinking!.If it's just for the one show, then why one hire a master station...?I doubt it would break the bank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrg198 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 try http://www.interspaceind.com/products/product.php?id=5, or maby not at Price: £275.00 (Excluding VAT That would be just the thing but I agree @ £275 + VAT it's a bit expensive for what it does! A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Ynot - A master station would be lovely but I don't own one and neither does the theatre so @ £800 is an expensive solution in this case! However that is clever thinking!.If it's just for the one show, then why one hire a master station...?I doubt it would break the bank... True, although I've only come across folks who hire beltpacks and PSU and not master stations. I'm looking for something that will work to use on conferences etc for our business as well so I'd rather not hire if I can avoid it. Plus you wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get money from this group to pay for production costs - the difficulties of groups who do things for charity and matching funds - every £ I spend is £3 less they have to give to a good cause. The fact that we bring along £10k of our own kit to do the show with so we can make it sound/look good seems to pass them by.... A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. I can't help on the PFL switching on the LS9, but I've been using Mr Hippy's solution for years, feeding the headphone output from the Tecpro into pins 2 and 3 of an XLR plug - mainly because tecpro kit is prone to hums being induced in the comms line, and feeding it into a balanced input with no ground minimises any snags. If an LS9 cannot cancel the autocancel, that's not very good - I can think of plenty of times when cancelling like this would be a pain. With an analog desk with mechanical switches it would be easy to do, but unless there's some setting somewhere I don't think it's possible on an LS9. It has a cue buss which you can select channels to add to it, but if you have a load of them, you can clear the buss with a button push ('Cue Clear'). I don't think it's possible to override - unless perhaps (thinking aloud here) it's one of the parameters in the channel safe functions - although I think safes are more about being safe from changes on recall rather than manual button pushing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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