Alex222 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi, at my collage we have the annual musical coming up in just over a month and a bit in out theatre (it is a proper theatre not the usual school hall thing). As we always do we plan everything in advance and build the set early as well so all rehearsals include the set as early as possible. Here is the idea (that has to happen!) half of the seating in the auditorium can be pushed back under itself so this will be done, then half of that space will be raised and turned into stage and the other half into the pit for the orchestra. In the raised area there will be an area where it is sunk down and in there will be a swimming pool somehow I have to light this from either in the water or out of the water through the sides. We first thought about using floor can's as lighting from the sides under the stage but then thought about the H&S side and also that the pool probably being plastic a 1/2K par would probably melt it, maybe an LED fixture ? I have added a few rough scetches to help understand the space The pool will sit on about (4 x 0.5m) high rostrum and the stage will be about a 1m high rosrtum. the diagram shows the pool as being 4 m by 4 m that is the maximum size it could be. The seading is raked aswell and the 1st row is at about the same hight as the stage http://www.picturehosting.com/images/alex222/img001.jpghttp://www.picturehosting.com/images/alex222/img002.jpg Any ideas are welcome.alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Two things come to mind - Water is a great heatsink, so the volume of water in the pool might make external lighting possible - having said that, a load of LED cans around the edges shining though could look good. Last point. Have you checked weights? 50cm deoth of water in a 2 x 1m pool weighs about a ton and a half!So if it's a bit of steeldeck with 4 scaff legs, that's a VERY big point loading on the floor. It also makes a hell of a mess if it leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Not wishing to throw cold water (pun VERY intended) on this, has the school considered ALL of the safety aspects of this idea? Water in volume that presumably talent will be swimming in WILL need full treatment (ie chlorine, filters, etc etc) or it will become a source of quite a few microbe unpleasantries. Heating - even indoors, the ambient temperature of a large body of water WILL be very cold - and be a great shock to anyone entering for the performance. Accidents - now I can't seem to follow your web link at the moment, so not 100% sure of the actual size of the pool and your text above isn't too clear. But as Paul says, water is VERY heavy and as such you'll need to ensure the sides are VERY strong to withstand the pressure. And if there is a breach in the lining, it's likely to become a bigger leak very quickly 9depending on the material used. Because of all this, I have the impression that this is rather a large project for a school performance, even one that has the luxury of a proper auditorium and time to plan. It is also likely to get very costly very quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Last point. Have you checked weights? 50cm deoth of water in a 2 x 1m pool weighs about a ton and a half!So if it's a bit of steeldeck with 4 scaff legs, that's a VERY big point loading on the floor. It also makes a hell of a mess if it leaks. Weight is something that we are looking into at the moment, the weight would spread over about 3 re-enforced pices atage I think we will have to consult someon on this point. With regards to keeping the water clean It will be filled up to test it works and then emptied and then only filled up when it is near to the time of using it. We also have a pool at the school so we will be using the people that maintain it to keep it clean and safe. We were consudering for reliability issues using a ready made pool, good quality inflatable one. as they usualy have clear sides so the light would pass through a bit easier. alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal421 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Have you thought about how you are going to empty this pool twice ? Is the venue on a water meter ? If they are how will they feel about you using so much water at their expence ! Also don't forget about Archimedes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatman Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 .. the weight would spread over about 3 re-enforced pices atage I think we will have to consult someon on this point. .. I'm sorry, but this sentence makes no sense at all. "pices atage" means "Happy Fish", I doubt very much that is what you mean. OTOH as it's a swimming pool perhaps you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Have you thought about how you are going to empty this pool twice ? Is the venue on a water meter ? I has been discussed that it will be "emptied" don't know how not getting involved with that one (a lot of buckets I would of thought) B-) No it isn't on a water meter thankfully. alex. A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. ..the weight would spread over about 3 re-enforced pices atage I think we will have to consult someon on this point. .. I'm sorry, but this sentence makes no sense at all. "pices atage" means "Happy Fish", I doubt very much that is what you mean. OTOH as it's a swimming pool perhaps you do. ha oops should of read over that one before I posted it, what I meant to say was that the pool will be on about three 1mx2m pieces of rostrum so it isn't one piece of rostrum holding it all on 4 legs it would be three pieces of rostrum on 12 legs and it would all be strengthened to cope with the weight. hope that makes sense now :blink: alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 You should also consider that under the wiring regs, swimming pools are "special areas", and your electrical safety analysis will probably have to take this into account. Obviously, you have only a temporary pool for theatrical purposes, but the risks (e.g. water splashes onto electrical connector, person in wet clothes makes physical contact etc.) are just as real. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Ye any of the electrical connections, lights and so are being kept away from the pool, and the pool will be seperated from the lights by perspex to stop any flying water in that direction. when people that use the pool get out of it (there are only 2 people that use it) they will exit the stage dry of ... and wait in the wings for when they next come on so they won't come in contact with electrical cables, also any cables will be kept above ground incase of any water and water safe cables and connectors will be used. Does anyone have any interesting isead of how lights can be used in interesting ways to light this lights can be hung nearly from anywhere above aswell if this helps. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Actually - your new dimensions make it worse - you have 4.5t of weight - and you just put double the floor loading onto legs very very close together, almost doubling the point loading = oh, and not taking into account people in the pool! Strengthening product like steeldeck or similar is rather tricky - any certification you have goes out of the window and you're on your own! Sorry we're all giving you the doom and gloom - but with all the structural and safety issues - this could well be a non starter. Last thing - do you have any idea how long it will take to fill a pool of this size? From standard mains pressure using 15mm typical o.d. pipe, and the drain time? probably not worth emptying and refilling - and if there is a water meter............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It was the weight issue that jumped out at me. If your drawing is right (4m x 4m x .5m) you have 8 cubic metres of water. Conveniently, a cubic metre of water weighs 1000kg so you have 8000kg of water their....thats 17,600 pounds...or not far short of 9 tons! You sure don't want to create point loadings by putting that up on scaff legs...and even fully distributed it might be too much for a structural engineer to accept on the theatre floor. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Is there not any possibility of making the Temporary stage 0.5m and resting the pool on the floor? This gives the director the ability to work on 2 different levels and solves the problem with the point loading on the steel deck. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound In Gloucestershire Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I hope to god you were joking about the buckets of water idea??? if you start now, youd probably get it full in time for dress rehearsals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatman Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Richard Pilbrow describes how he produced the water effects for "Show Boat" on Broadway back in 1994 in this book: http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/1854599968.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg He used mixture of tubular ripple effects and birdies in traps, together with water troughs under glass. It's certainly worth a read at this stage to give you some ideas and you should be able to get it through your local library. There's also some useful hints on the hstech website. Have you looked at low voltage submersible pond lighting? This example is made of stainless steel and is very expensive but there are much cheaper plastic versions around. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 The dimensions that I gave are the maximum area that the pool can take up. The idea of having the pool roughly at 0.5 m deep was a rough estimate, looks like the depth will need to be reduced. The floor that the pool / rostrum would be resting on is solid concrete. The idea of having 2 different levels is a possible or the stage could stay at 1m and then have a step down to say 60cm and then have the pool on ground level, Or it might make it safer if we used a 2m by 2m deep pool ? because that would mean that the pool was smaller it could sit in a more central position with staging around it and the reduced size would give it a bit more of “romantic feel” :biggrin: And not the idea of using buckets to empty it was a joke. A pump will be used (that the school own already) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.