Help with Strand 200 -> Botex Me 72

[Liquidfire]

Hi,

 

Has anyone every connected a Strand 200 desk to a Botex Me 72 (or equiv)?

 

I selected these pieces of equipment after researching and was quite sure that this is what I need to convert from DMX to my schools system. I bought a new 25 pin D sub -> 4x6 pin din for the job as well.

 

This is all to replace our old desk, which is a Strand MX with it's own Strand Lighting Demultiplexer and 25 pin D sub.

 

The old Strand MX uses a 3 pin XLR whereas the Strand 200 has a 5 pin XLR; both can connect to the Botex and send DMX (the signal light is on). I can't seem to get any logical signal going from the Botex through to the lighting systems. I've managed to get all sorts of wrong signals, from opposite fader control to grouped lights but nothing of use.

 

I'm currently trying to work through and have started with the D sub cable, which when purchased they asked me what desk it was for... to which I replied Strand (thinking as the Botex is basically a S72 it should run off the same pins at the back... though there are many discussions here but no concrete answer to this). By plugging in my NEW D sub into the OLD Desk/Demultiplexer I have found that it is wired differently... 25 is still the earth but the cables inside are wired differently. (e.g. desk channel 12 is 1, 13 is 6, 14 as 18). I know this as I have tried the new D sub with the old Demultiplexer. I have tried using the old desk with the Botex and I'm not getting anything from that either.

 

Any ideas... I can give more details but I think this is enough to give a rough idea of what I'm trying to do and where I'm at!

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

James

[bruce]

You've missed out possibly the most important part - what are the dimmers?

 

Talking to analogue dimmers can be a bit of a black art - most use 8-pin dins (or bleecon or preh), but there are 2 wiring conventions and 2 polarities in common use.

[Liquidfire]

You've missed out possibly the most important part - what are the dimmers?

 

Talking to analogue dimmers can be a bit of a black art - most use 8-pin dins (or bleecon or preh), but there are 2 wiring conventions and 2 polarities in common use.

 

 

Sorry; dimmers are Pulsar Rackpaks. On my original post I wrote they are connected via 6 pin din, but it is 8 pin din. I'm not so sure about the internal wiring as you can tell.

 

When I select chase from the 72 Me I'm getting light; pretty much everything comes on; just no manual control so omitted the dimmer bit as I figured they are working.

 

Thanks,

 

 

James

[Ynot]

So.

You can control the dimmers by setting switches on the demux, yes?

Presumably test switches?

If so, then yes your wiring to the packs must be OK, assuming the correct channels come up on the packs when selected on the demux.

 

That points maybe to an input error.

Is the Botex demux a 3-pin or 5-pin input?

If 3-pin try reversing the signal polarity (if you haven't already). Even though you say you get a DMX light lit, some kit will light that even if it sees a reversal.

[Glyn Edwards]

This is all to replace our old desk, which is a Strand MX with it's own Strand Lighting Demultiplexer and 25 pin D sub.

 

The old Strand MX uses a 3 pin XLR whereas the Strand 200 has a 5 pin XLR; both can connect to the Botex and send DMX (the signal light is on). I can't seem to get any logical signal going from the Botex through to the lighting systems. I've managed to get all sorts of wrong signals, from opposite fader control to grouped lights but nothing of use.

 

I'm currently trying to work through and have started with the D sub cable, which when purchased they asked me what desk it was for... to which I replied Strand (thinking as the Botex is basically a S72 it should run off the same pins at the back... though there are many discussions here but no concrete answer to this). By plugging in my NEW D sub into the OLD Desk/Demultiplexer I have found that it is wired differently... 25 is still the earth but the cables inside are wired differently. (e.g. desk channel 12 is 1, 13 is 6, 14 as 18). I know this as I have tried the new D sub with the old Demultiplexer. I have tried using the old desk with the Botex and I'm not getting anything from that either.

I Think, from memory ...

 

The Mx talks to a Strand Demux box using a protocol called D54 (on 3 Pin XLR), which is not compatible with DMX512, which is what the 200 sends out on 5 Pin XLR. The fact that the signal light is on simply indicates that there is a voltage present on the signal cable. (You can hear different languages, but not always understand them). It may be that the 200 will output D54, or the Mx will output DMX512 so things can be tested that way.

 

As has been said by others, analogue dimmers require the DEMUX unit to not only spit out both the correct voltage (commonly 0-10V) and the correct polarity (positive or negative), but also to spit it out in the right place. If using the test switches on the Botox controls the correct dimmer then the 25 way D --> DIN plug lead is wired correctly.

 

If this is the case then the fault would appear to be in the DMX lead that links the 200 to the Botox, or in the input to the Botox unit. As Ynot has suggested its probably a phase issue in the DMX system.

 

Glyn

[paulears]

Glyn's right - the 3 pin output is D54, but DMX is available on the MX on a 5 pin - if this helps you.

[ojc123]

Recently connected a Strand 200 to a Botex ME72 to Strand ACT6+ Dimmers.

 

First got one of these (bottom of the page).

Connected it to the Act6+ and to the Botex.

Read the manual. (I have it as pdf so PM if you need it.)

Messed around setting the addresses so that the first address corresponded to the first channel and the voltages and stuff were as required.

I then made sure that each channel corresponded ie A001 operated the first dimmer and so on.

Then I connected the Strand 200 to the Botex using 5 pin DMX cable and Bob was indeed my uncle.

 

The bit that took time was setting the addresses. I had a few random lights till I got the hang of it. I knew nothing of DMX so I basically rtfm'd and got on with it.

 

Don't know if that's any help.

[bruce]

When I select chase from the 72 Me I'm getting light; pretty much everything comes on; just no manual control so omitted the dimmer bit as I figured they are working.

OK, so you get light - but is it the _right sort of light_ :-)

 

ie - does the chase look sensible, or are you just getting a few random flashes? It's the "pretty much"

that worries me.

 

remember that pulsar has a different pinout on the 8-pin from virtually everything else. If you plug a zero88/strand/whatever-style cable in, you may well get some response, but not on the expected channels, and not on all channels.

 

get yourself a simple volmeter, set it to a 0-10V DC scale.

 

Take DIN connector 1, which should be handling channels 1-6.

 

Connect one voltmeter lead to pin 8 (the one in the centre of the DIN) and the other to pin 2 (in the middle of the arc).

 

Wiggle whatever faders should control DMX channels 2 and 6 in turn.

 

If channel 6 causes the meter to move, your cable is wired to the Pulsar convention. (pulsar has pin2 ground, pin8 channel6)

If channel 2 causes the meter to move, your cable is wired to the just-about-everyone-else convention. (which has pin8 ground, pin2 channel 2)

 

There are pinouts for both conventions on http://business.virgin.net/tom.baldwin/pinout-8din.html

[ianknight]

I think Bruce has hit the nail on the head - Pulsar do use a different pinout to everyone else - but often the pin assignment is shown on the rack. Also, the Botex pinout is strange - Strand solved the problem by including 25D adaptor's with their S72's that converts the pinout to 'standard'.

 

The 200 doesn't output D54 - the only modern desks that did that are the 400/500 series (not sure about the Palette but I suspect not). You should also be aware of cable length on the DMX output of the 200 - it runs out of legs quite quickly at 30m or more and needs a spliiter/booster to reform the signal.

[Liquidfire]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for all your advice.... quite a bit so it'll take me some time to work through; though I'll let you know what works when I get there!

 

After I posted I managed to get it working a little better, now the faders are controlling the wrong powerpak channels (fader 22 & 24 are turning on lights from 1 powerpak channel each even though I only have 18 channels so 19-24 are not even plugged in!) and I have one fader that is controlling three different lights (that are all on different powerpak channels). Seems I have an issue with the D sub, so I'll start with that.

 

 

quick answers before I start today...

 

bruce / Ian Knight - "does the chase look sensible, or are you just getting a few random flashes? It's the "pretty much" that worries me."

The chase isn't sensible at all - I'm getting all the lights 'on' from one PowerPak but none from the other currently plugged in. If DT will lend me one I’ll try the voltmeter test; I’ve noted what lights are working when I plug in the new D sub into the old desk & demultiplexer… it is different. I've now got some faders to work but not on the expected powerpak channels.

 

I found this thread http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=28880 and bought from 10 out of 10. They asked me what desk it was for to which I replied Strand and so have been given a Strand/Zero88 D sub I guess I’ve got one that isn’t correct for pulsar packs... my fault if this is the case. Prob my bad luck getting a unconventional output from a Demultiplexer then adding unconventional wiring of a Pulsar, guess 10outof10 wouldn't have thought about the odds of me using pulsar packs.

 

ojc123 - It was your original thread that made me get the Botex Me72, and the link above. I looked at the threads on this board and purchased the same lead from the same supplier... thanks! I've got the manual for the Strand(s) and a manual for the Botex, though under a German name, so I assume, the same as reading a S72 manual for the same device.

 

paulears / Glyn Edwards - yeah I realised the MX 3 pin is D54 but wondered whether the Botex would convert the D54 signal as well... guess not. I have also tried using the MX's DMX512 output into the Demux. Guessed the light was coming on just to say there was a signal, but hoped it would only come on for a signal it was able to decode.

I've got the Botex set to positive and 10V; will check if thats correct.

 

Glyn Edwards / Ynot - The Botex doesn't have test switches - just a chase function that atm is turning some of the lights on even though I haven't saved a scene yet. It's 3 and 5 pin in/out and In have tried reversing polarity.

 

Wuddy (via PM) - The 25pinD connector on the rear of the Botex is a 25pin Fmale, therfore as you look at it the pin at the top lefthand corner is pin13 NOT pin1.

 

So following the connection diagram adjacent to the connector,

Ch1 = pin13, Ch2 = pin25, ch3 = pin12, ch4 = pin22 and so on until you've done 24 channels and then you have one pin left for the ground/earth THIS IS NOT PIN 25 it is PIN 1.

 

 

The D sub cable is wired differently to the one I had with the Strand MX; I was hoping that therefore it would be correct. It's a bit silly how they have given a diagram on the back of the unit that only gives away what one of the 25 pins is used for. I now have two D subs and don't even know which one I should concentrate my efforts on!

 

 

 

Once again thanks everyone.... I'll work through and give you all an update letting you know which remidies I needed!

[Glyn Edwards]

Following conversations with various people and to summarise whats been said here...

 

The Pulsar racks do not use the same pin outs as the rest of the world for 8 pin Din control.

 

The Strand FD D54 Demux does not use the same pin out as a Strand S72 demux for the 25 pin D Connector

 

The Strand S72 may not use the same pin out as the Botox Unit.

 

Therefore it seems likely to me that the system is working correctly as far as the output from the Demux. The problem lies in the connections between Demux & racks.

 

Solution 1, Locate all the pin outs and rebuild one of the existing splitters

 

Solution 2, Locate all the pin outs and build a 25 pin D to 25 Pin D "Adaptor cable" and use an existing splitter

 

Solution 3, Identify which channel controls which dimmer and then softpatch the 200 accordingly

 

Solution 4, Talk to your supplier (10 out of 10?) and see if they'll swap the control spider for the correct one (Or otherwise supply it).

 

Glyn

[ianknight]

The Strand S72 may not use the same pin out as the Botox Unit.

 

The Strand S72 and Botex unit are the same pin out - they are the same unit except for a Strand front panel hence Strand packing 25D adaptors with each S72 (though Strand didn't believe adaptors were needed when they first sold the unit - they were a late addition).

 

The 25D pins are a pain - I took three goes with our first installed unit to get the adaptor lead right but now I can see why it's done the way it is. Also if memory serves, the unit goes into chase mode if there is no DMX signal present - check your DMX cable is OK and pins 2+3 are NOT inverted.

 

The other thing to be aware of is that the outputs aren't buffered by any drive circuits - they come straight off the op-amps that derive the voltages. It MIGHT be that connecting a voltage to them from the Pulsar packs has blown one of the IC's (although on some versions the chips are socketed and so can be swapped to test and replace). For the same reason (no buffering) neither version will drive Mini 2 racks for a prolonged time

 

Also (semantically) both you and 10outof10 answered the question you were asked - the wrong question was asked - it should have been "What dimmers are you using the ME72 with?".

[Liquidfire]

Hi...

 

As the rest of the forum appears to have already concluded it is the D sub connection - I'll speak to ten out of ten on Monday and see what they can do.

 

I did Bruce's test with a Volmeter and yes, the wires are connected in the conventional way rather than the Pulsar way.

 

As OJC123 had the same system with the exception of Act6's which use the conventional 8 pin din connection I connected one Act6 dimmer pack and it worked correctly... all channels from the desk were going numerically (at least for the 6 channels I tested...more on Monday!). Which means that the Strand 200 and the Botex 72 Me are both talking properly, it's just the D sub is mixing the signal up - the actual 25 pin D sub part is wired correctly for what I need it for - but the 8 pin dins need to be altered to the Pulsar setting. I may research into getting/making an adapter for the Act6 so that I could use that as a backup without re-wiring should anything go wrong.

 

Thanks everyone for your help! :D