computer Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Hi, I'm a poor student (:D) and I am really into stage lighting. we have a local amatuer theatre group, and I help there, but they have no lighting (well, they have 4 par cans hooked to a single channel pulsar dimmer). So, they asked if I knew a way to get or make some cheap lighting equipment. I said I'd have a look, and I came across this. I thought it looked pretty good and isn't that expensive to do. I was thinking of doing an 8 channel version with two 4 channel dimmer packs (like pulsar's rock desk/minipaks). Does this look safe? And is it easily done or hard to do? I am in the UK if that helps. We will be probably be buying 4 more parcans at some point soon. Also, is it true you can dim standard floodlights on a theatre dimmer? I can get a cheap floodlight from a local shop for about £6 so if so it would be brilliant. I heard they work exactly the same as the professional ones but without a gel frame. Thanks,computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMcConnell Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Seems to me quite complicated to construct having seen the circuit diag.s and unless you are quite competant with electronics and all the safety issues, I wouldn't bother.Also, it was designed for operation in south Africa, and it might not comply with the PAT testing over here in the UK (sure someone else will be able to offer more advice...)Quick bit of my advice... I've seen a strand tempus 12 channel board sell for £50 on ebay, and I'm sure a look around the internet will find some cheap second hand dimmers, bearing in mind the cost of buying all the circuitry to make your Lx800, buying second hand stuff may be the way forward. two 4 channel dimmer packs (like pulsar's rock desk/minipaks).Looking at this, you colour by some pre-made secondhand boards and maybe link them up to your home-made dimmers? Normal household floodlights can be used, yes, as long as they have been PAT tested and all that, but are they really any use to you? most have no colour frames as you say, floodlights aren't very directional and aren't much use for most applications. Also, many home floodlights don't have proper mounting yolks like the stage versions. HTH, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computer Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 so floodlights are dimmable then? anyway, back to the controller/thing. if I made those dimmer packs, then that might work with a second hand desk if I use the standard connections (pinout diags?). I'm pretty confident in electronics, and have been working with them for years. at college I have access to circuit board machines to make them and software to design them, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 so floodlights are dimmable then?There is no reason why they cant be...just plug them into a dimmer! (I did this to light a stained glass window in a recent play) David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computer Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 ** laughs out loud **, the reason I didn't is I was worried I'd blow something up! I thought perhaps that professional ones cost a lot is because of special bulbs or something... like the old cheap halogen spotlights that blew if you dimmed them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 In the dim distant past I've built dimmer packs from my own designs. It's not difficult to do if you have a good knowledge of electronics and access to all the right bits BUT it certainly isn't economic. It's a good academic exercise but it's as cheap to buy either secondhand or one of the many product out of the far-east. You can get a reasonable, new, 4-channel dimmer pack for £70. As for control desks, cutting all those slots for faders is SOOOO tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Floodlights are dimmable, you can just stick a bit of gel to the front if you leave a gap for air to circulate. The problem with them is there are no barndoors to stop the light shining on thins you don't want it to. The dimmers can be run of a normal analouge desk. The circuits look fairly standard and I can't spot any immediate problems with them. Portable appliance tests are not affected by the circuit design. The circuit may not comply to the regulations regarding electromagnetic compatability but the inductor in series with the triac should stop it causing any interference to audio systems. Important The circuit involves mains voltage. If it is built incorrectly or safe working practices are not followed during its building or use someone could die. Isolation between the extra low voltage (control) and mains side must be maintained. All metal casings should be earthed and all non conductive casings double insulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 It's too difficult for a "home" constructor to comply with all the CE testing esp the interference testing. Get a pro dim pack, and try for a cheap analogue board. Night-fighter floods are just that -floods, not very controllable perfectly dimmable though. look for the ones with a big wire basket on the front this is meant to keep hands off the glass but it will keep a big piece of gel off the glass for colour washes ( they are called Work lights and may have a floor stand included). DFB-UK.COM have cheap par 56s retail and new Do think where you are going to feed all these new lights from. Are you a competant person within the meaning of the act to source the power from dis board or meter and do the wiring(my new dim pack needs 3 x 30A three phase or 90A single phase). Also think about safe positionong of the lamps and access to them for focussing and re-gelling http://www.aclighting.com/bargains/index.htm and click the red box to update, is one place to get s/h kit analog dims and desks are out of fashion so cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computer Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 well I can get the machines to cut the holes for me :D anyway, for power, we were looking to run these off of standard 13amp plugs. running 4 standard par 64s of 13 amps shouldn't be a problem. I reckon a 200watt lamp running on 240v should be about 1.25 amps, which means 4 would be ample. I'll have a 10a fuse on the incoming supply and a 4a fuse on each individual IEC outlet. so, I think my skills are up to it, but I could get sued if it causes an accident? or will insurance provide cover? controller wise, I really for some reason like the idea of making my own. I can create a nice professional look with the machines, so that would be good, plus I can customise the features... being into electronics means this could easily be a fun project :blink: also, the option on each dimmer's output to switch it to switching, rather than dimming is quite good. I would guess a relay in parallel with the power supply to cut out the dimmer part when it is pulled in from say a 5v source (half the dimmer power) driving a 5v relay switching between dimmer or full-blown mains relay (coil @ 12v or something). good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 running 4 standard par 64s of 13 amps shouldn't be a problem.A 1kw Par 64 is 4.2A at 240v, so 4 would be 16.6A - so you wouldn't be able to run it off one 13A plug. You'd have to put 2 Pars into one 13A socket, and the other 2 into the other socket (remembering a rings main is usually 32A). You could run 4x500w Par 64s off a 13A socket (2.1A x 4 = 8.4A) A 200w lamp at 240v would be 0.85A. Not sure what lanterns take a 200w lamp mind. Do you mean a 300w Par 56 lamp? (1.25A) Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 but I could get sued if it causes an accident? or will insurance provide cover?I think its pretty safe to say you would get sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computer Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 okay, well having second thoughts on the dimmer packs, I have seen though other companies making them, but I can't seem to find anymore except on ebay :blink: anyone know of another site with info on building your own? all I could find on google was this one? I think I might build my own desk though.... if only I could work out how to control the 10v signals from a computer to allow it to work like a memory desk :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Dim packs are so cheap you couldnt buy the bits, plus YOU WILL have liability for your home made units for all time. Allow 5 amps for a 1k par64 and 1.25 amps for a 300wpar56 and allow some headroom for switch on surges I suggest you get an Approved Electrician to find at least 32amps or pref 63 amps for you and fit you a ceeform socket in your chosen dimmer room then buy some analog dimmpacks and an analog desk. Choose your luminaires carefully for max effect so that you can do good design without extreme power consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djbarryblue Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Look at the behringer stuff its not that dear to buy and ok for the money. you will get a 24channel DMX desk for about £100-£150 and there dimmers are about £200-£300 just shop about to get the best price. This will save you money on your labour time and the parts,dosent seem worth the hastle trying to build your own. Behringer Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardisaster Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 ive used diy dimmer before, and to be honest there not worth the components thier made with. If anything goes wrong with the circuitry. you are liable. The better option is to pick them up second hand. think about it from a techs pov... u may not be the only one to operate it, if you build a setup, youll know its workings. but theres always the keen actor wanting some light for rehearsal who fries his hands. and to be honest prob the rest of him too.. Then its down to you. its a matter of what you can deal with. £300 iniatial outlay for a set of second hand dimmers and a board. or £10,000's worth of compo to a actor who will complain youve ruined thier career... On a tangent, the diy dimmers I used were back in day.... in a loft, comprising of a household dimmer switch with a red wire and a black wire one out of each side. All would seem fine you may think, one night show, no probs there.. wont worry about it.... apart from the fact the sparky forgot to tell me till afterwards... " oh yeah, I couldnt provide enough power for that 1k flood on stage... thats what the wires are for... they come from that other socket in the corner...." Was hastenly removed one month later...... :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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